This is a clip that has Stacey Campbell “prophesying” in it. She shakes her head back and forth so violently that it looks like it’s gonna fall off. The interesting thing about this is that though her mouth is shaking this harshly and is turning toward and away from the microphone rapidly, there is no ascension nor diminishing of the sound of her voice. This is un-natural. Being the son of a sound man I know alot about mics, modulation, singing too close to the mic and being too far from it. I know that the slightest movement of the mic will cause your voice to lose volume in amplifiers. Bringing it too close makes the speakers fuzzy. None of this is recorded while she “prophesies”.
You’ll have to listen to Pat King talk for a few minutes, but just hang on for a little over 5 minutes. It gets real good after that…
For those of you who have never been a part of this “prophetic movement” as I have been, this will shock you out of your skin.
In my opinion, it is simply satanic that she is able to do this. This kind of violent and spasmodic behavior is never found in the bible’s prophets, but is found in every satanic cult you can think of ranging from Satanism, Wicca, Hinduism and many others. This is a disgrace to the Spirit of God.
I recommend to you an article from Derek Prince. I don’t know about anything else he ever wrote or preached, but this article is helpful. It’s a chapter out of a book he wrote in ‘96. He mentions that there are certain adjectives that can never describe the Holy Spirit. Pay attention to that part.
Enjoy,
mark jr.
136 responses so far ↓
Gretna // February 13, 2007 at 12:35 am |
Wow! I thought her head was going to come off or start spinning all the way around! Its too bad Brian Welch has bought into this stuff. Zeke and I went to go hear his testimony about 2 years ago in a HUGE church in Bakersfield.
Eddie // February 13, 2007 at 4:21 am |
Oh yeah, I can see how that lines up with what the prophets and the apostles did. Yeah, this is totally in line with the mandate lined out in scripture. NOT!
Eddie
Iwanthetruth // February 13, 2007 at 7:43 pm |
You sure her name wasn’t Linda Blair????
Gretna. Good ol’ Bakersfield.. with pride I say I grew up there. Not there now though.
mary2 // February 15, 2007 at 1:47 am |
eeeooh, that video was creepy. I have noticed that many non believers have better discernment -they would get creeped out by this video then the christians that are sitting in that meeting. Just a thought that Satan has a way of drawing people in until they loose all discernment abilities. I don’t think I can do this justice but somewhere on google search on spiritual discernment or false gifts or something I came across an account that went something as follows: someone who was giving a prophesy or acting out in a revival and when confronted by the leadership of the church the person began manifesting a demon who said he was a spirit of jesus-a false jesus that was sent to deceive the body of believers in this church. If I can find it I’ll post the web address but it really reminds me of this video. Who says halloween is for pagans. Apparently it’s also celebrated in the church.
Discernment // February 15, 2007 at 7:24 pm |
That is very disturbing. Did you notice the guys who were repetitively bowing in the backgruond? I have noticed that a lot among the prophetic movement and some of them at the Forerunner services at FSG Encountering God services…is this something from the Brownsville thing?
Iwanthetruth // February 15, 2007 at 7:40 pm |
Descernment,
I noticed it alot in some personal contacts that I had with a local Vineyard church. They were very much into the Toronto Blessing (which transfered to brownsville) and when they came back to town (we had just moved here and was looking for a church and happened to go that night) they were into the “drunk in the spirit”, “laughing” thing and then they began to rock, bobing, bowing, and then get “slain”. I have to tell you, I was there and after 3 hours of this “ungodliness”, my wife and I all but ran out of there. They were making growling sounds, waving their hands over those who were “slain” and calling out “more Lord, more”.
The verse that was used to explain this (in a sermon that night) was from Acts 2 when the Holy Spirit fell and finally the question was asked, “What is this?” That very verse was his text for the message!It took me about three days to finally stop trying to figure out what that talk was all about. Whew! Now that Vineyard is defunct. No longer exists. Sad because a lot of people have been decieved by this and some of them I know and they are still trying to this day have those “experiences”. Most have gone to other churches where they are just “waiting for the move of God” but I pray that the only move that happens is an awakening to the truth of the scriptures.
mary2 // February 15, 2007 at 10:34 pm |
I suspect Stacey is going to end up in the ER one day soon. Wonder how her friends are going to explain the trauma to her brain..”It’s complicated how it occured, Dr. X… but, well we caught it on video. here take a look see ….
Discernment // February 15, 2007 at 11:03 pm |
Mary, that is actually a possibility as the brain is surrounded by a layer of liquid and could be contused (bruised) by such shaking, she could shear her vertebral arteries as well and have a CVA (stroke) which would be even more severe. Not to mention she could herniate a disc in her cervical spine as well.
Discernment // February 15, 2007 at 11:06 pm |
What is that sound she is making? A hiss?
Its hard to understand what she is talking about but something about stones.
Great endtimes harvest…
Apostles and prophets…
blah blah blah the usual latter rain nonsense, I think she even mentioned Joel in there somewhere
iseeitdifferently // February 15, 2007 at 11:29 pm |
Just in case in helps, I did cover the horrible exegesis (maybe eisegesis?) of Acts 2.
Here it is. http://iseeitdifferently.wordpress.com/2006/12/06/christian-drunkenness/
mark jr.
keithgibson // February 16, 2007 at 8:47 pm |
Mark,
Thanks for posting this clip. I had read the prophecy on Elijah List but you just don’t get the full impact unless you see it.
I also was fascinated that Randy DeMain is able to “release a breaker angel” at one of Patricia’s upcoming (perhaps now past) meetings. I love how these apostles and prophets are always releasing God to do things. Good thing God has them on His side. I also love it that they know Randy Demain can do this in advance. So apparently, Randy speaks and this angel just hops to it like some kind of celestial house servant.
Incredible.
-k
Iwanthetruth // February 16, 2007 at 8:53 pm |
KEITH,
ISN’T IT INTERESTING THAT ON THE ELIJAH LIST THEY STILL HAVE UP FRONT THE KIM CLEMENT PROPHECY ABOUT BIN LADEN FOUND IN 35 DAYS. i WONDER IF THEY ARE CONSIDERING “1000 DAYS AS A YEAR AND A YEAR AS A THOUSAND DAYS.” BOY BIN LADEN IS GOING TO BE ANCIENT!
aND NOW THJERES A NEW ONE, WATCH OUT FOR THE VOLACOES IN THE NORTWEST. IT WILL BE A SIGN.
iseeitdifferently // February 16, 2007 at 10:25 pm |
Let me suggest how she may be able to do this without hurting her physical body.
Many occultists walk on firey stones, glass, sit on nails, stick swords in their skulls and suffer no harm. I’ve heard stories about demon possession and exorcisms and have heard that while demons come out of people, sometimes they bend the bodies in unnatural ways that aren’t physically possible to us without killing us in the natural.
I say all that so say that she may never suffer any harm at all in the same way that folks being delivered don’t suffer the ill effects and contortions. I don’t know, I’m speculating.
Iwanthetruth…
caps lock dude…turn it off bro…lol!
mark jr.
iseeitdifferently // February 17, 2007 at 3:28 pm |
Hey, if these folks ever want to lay hands on you and pray, this is your response:
http://www.nd.edu/~comet/stuff/dont.wav
mark jr.
mary2 // February 17, 2007 at 5:23 pm |
Discernment,
Yes, I work in the neurocritical care field. I guess then since this is a supernatural event, there have not been any reported cases of people getting injured while having these types of prophetic messages? But isn’t it just plain to them that since we are the temple of the holy spirit God would never work in this way by causing physical harm -havent they ever seen demonic possessions and occult behavior? I felt dirty just watching this video. It’s amazing they can’t connect the dots.I guess they are just completely snowed over.
Mary // February 19, 2007 at 5:43 pm |
Mark jr.
like the don’t touch me song.
Mary // February 19, 2007 at 5:56 pm |
I agree with your comment ,lMark Jr., about why there is no physical harm. Thanks.
Vince // February 21, 2007 at 10:14 pm |
I can’t watch the Video for some reason, it won’t load. Did they take it off?
iwanthetruth // February 21, 2007 at 10:55 pm |
it’s still there. I just activated it.
Totem to Temple // February 24, 2007 at 6:20 pm |
That is a very bizarre video. I also noticed the ‘mantric’ repetitions of the same musical chords over and over again. As I watched the video, one word resonated so loud in me
Seduction.
When I have seen or heard the women of the third ‘rave’ speak, there is this pulling of seduction that is present that one has to fight to keep from being deceived by it.
iseeitdifferently // February 24, 2007 at 7:04 pm |
“the DNA is in the stones!…”
What the heck does that mean? Babbling.
Babble on, Babylon.
mark jr.
iseeitdifferently // February 25, 2007 at 3:05 am |
True. It really shows up in the way girls dress (or don’t) in these churches. It goes along with the spirit of the thing.
So ladies, how tight DO those pants have to be? Who are you trying to kid…
…I feel another posting topic coming on…
mark jr.
Eddie // February 26, 2007 at 12:28 am |
Mark,
“The DNA is in the stones.” YOU KNOW…we all came from rocks anyway….:-)…well duh…I can’t believe you didn’t figure that one out…..LOL.
Eddie
Discernment // February 26, 2007 at 2:29 pm |
Is there a transcript of what she is channeling er I mean prophesying anywhere?
Discernment // February 26, 2007 at 2:39 pm |
OK, I found it on the Elijah List: http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word/4948
‘Stacey Campbell: “CHANGING TIMES, CHANGING SEASONS–A HARVEST OF BILLIONS!”
“And the forms and the structures–they’re coming down from the old wineskin, and a new wineskin is being built.”
January 2, 2007–Maricopa, Arizona
Below is a transcribed prophecy which was given by Stacey Campbell on January 2nd, 2007 in Maricopa, Arizona, at a gathering hosted by Patricia King from Extreme Prophetic. Patricia invited a group of prophetic people/ministers to gather and to celebrate, and to seek the Lord for the new year.
Changing Times. Changing Seasons
And when John the Baptist said, “Behold the Lamb of God,” all the structures–they broke down. They came down…falling down…it literally fell down. First in his body, then in the natural in 70 AD.
Living Stones
Everything they knew came down. Because we’re living stones. Living stones! Living stones! The life is not in the form. The life is in the stone. The DNA is in the brick.
A City Made of Stones
God is building His Church and the final revelation of the Church in Heaven is not even the bride, it’s a city–a city made of stones. And a light comes out of the stones to all the nations.
And all the stones come around the temple, and God is the temple in the middle of the stones. The Lamb is the temple, and the Lamb is the light. There’s no light, but the temple in the middle of the stones. The living stones!
Great Transformation
There’s a great transformation going on in the Body of Christ in the globe. And the forms and the structures–they’re coming down from the old wineskin, and a new wineskin is being built, but it’s very hard to discern.
The people are looking for it and they say, “Is this it? Is that it? Is this the Christ? Is this the One? Is this the form? Is this the structure?” And all over the earth they’re looking for the form that can contain the presence of God.
A Harvest that is So Big…
But what is coming? The harvest that is coming is so big, it cannot be contained in one structure. Even as the first structure was completely destroyed so that one stone was not left upon the other. The Church as you now know–it will never be the same! And this is the key–the life is in the bricks.
The Stones Are Alive!
Living stones. They’re alive! They’re alive! They’re alive! They’re ALIVE they contain His Spirit! So the key is not to discern the form, but the key is to discern the brick.
Who are you? Who are you? Who are you? Who are you in God? It comes from God and to God it shall return and it shall surround His presence forever and ever and ever and ever and ever in Heaven!
Who Are You?
Whenever you discern the “form” without discerning the “stone”, you will have a temporary structure that will not last. But whenever you discern the stone, uh huh, uh huh, I see that stone! I know that stone–that’s an Apostolic stone. That’s a Prophet stone. That’s a healing stone! And you begin to let the old stones go with the young stones. The male stones go side-by-side with the female stones.
Joel 2 and Acts 2. It’s coming again, it’s coming again! And when you discern the stone correctly, you can build a multiplicity of containers that contain less. That are less. That hold life. That hold the living, flowing presence of God.
It’s too Small if it is Only a Structure
There will be a multiplicity of containers, but the stones, they’re eternal! Eternal stones coming down from Heaven like a bride adorned. A city that is a bride. Revelation 21, the New Jerusalem, the holy city is like the bride.
When you discern the stones, you will put those living stones that contain life together with other living stones that contain life, and they will build a container for the times to house the presence of God. But if you only have a form, it’s too small, it’s too small, it’s TOO SMALL if it’s merely a structure.
It’s too small! It will NEVER be able to contain what God is about to do on the earth in terms of harvest!
A Harvest of Billions
There is a harvest coming that is so big, millions and millions and millions. Yea, a billion souls harvest that will need stone joined with stone, joined with stone united, and not divided!
Discerning the life in the brick! The jagged bricks; the old, old, smooth bricks; the grainy bricks all fitting together to form a container for HIM. For HIM! For HIM! For HIM! And for Him, let it be on earth like it will be eternally in Heaven!”
Build a Church that the Gates of Hell will Never Prevail Against
Build your Church Lord Jesus. Build a Church that the gates of hell will never, ever, ever prevail against. Build it, build it, build it out of the little ones! Build it out of the teens. Build it out of the old bricks. Build it out of all the bricks.
The apostles, YES, the apostles. The prophet, the teachers, the evangelist, and the pastors all coming together as living stones to form a container for His holy presence.
Let it be on the earth just like it is in Heaven!
tjscott // March 2, 2007 at 7:22 am |
It’s real hard for me not to be critical… it’s so easy for me to critisize, and I kinda sense you all are in agreement here, but… whew, this is hard… here we go… WHAT IN JESUS NAME WAS ALL OF THAT?!!
You know, concerning the prophetic – I WANT THE REAL THING! It drives me nuts how situations like this puts a black mark in the minds of people when it comes to the real stuff (like Peter Popoff puts on the real gift of healing, etc). I’ve heard the real thing, and I’ve heard and been around stuff like this. I get a sick feeling when I’m around what I just watched. The real prophetic gift leaves me encouraged, not confused as to whether it was real or not. When I hear a real word from God through a real prophet, there is no mistake that I have heard a real word from God through a real prophet – and my mind is on what was said, not what the man (or woman) who spoke it was doing while speaking it (or how weird they guy was twirling the flags while it was spoken)!
Who was she prophesying to? Whose lives were her words changing? What was the point? Would somebody please quit the nonsense, and reach the lost with the Gospel? This looks like someone who wants people to say “aren’t you great!”
Now, please excuse me… I’m going to vomit now!
Mary2 // March 2, 2007 at 11:10 pm |
tjscott,
yeah, I was wondering what the guy with the flag was doing myself.
Is that some new age thing? But in the end it all left me feeling like my stomach had just been chewed up. How sad. How really really sad this kind of stuff is. While don’t they just call themselves satanists and get it over with instead of ruining the Holy name of God. It’s a true disgrace.
iwanthetruth // March 2, 2007 at 11:16 pm |
Google WORSHIP + FLAGS and have at it.
mbaker // March 3, 2007 at 1:00 am |
Interesting in all her talk about the “stones” and building the new church of them, she mentioned all the different stones except the main one-the cornerstone, which is Christ. So typical of the modern day prophetic movement.
Speaking of stones, or should we say stoned when it comes to this woman’s performance?
tjscott // March 4, 2007 at 12:57 am |
Here’s a good question… if you are a true prophet of the Lord, do you need to call yourself a prophet in order for people to know you are a prophet?
I believe that God has prophets in this nation, but most of them (if not all) would never correct you if you didn’t call them “Prophet ______” A true prophet NEVER points people to him (or her) self. They point people to Christ. The prophetic gift can be a powerful tool when used to reach the lost. Jesus used this gift with the woman at the well and had great success in having an in-road to reaching her for eternity, not just for the moment.
Another huge flaw with all of this is that people are drawn to these gatherings to hear a word from God, but will never listen to Him speak through their pastor or anyone else who KNOWS them because they refuse to submit to any authority in their lives. Nor will they read their Bible.
Bottom line for me is that every believer needs to know the true voice of God for themselves (my sheep know my voice) so that when the next person shows up who wants to prophesy, and it really isn’t “thus saith the Lord”, they can shut the mess down.
As far as flags are concerned… I don’t think that the issue is the flags themselves. The issue there is what’s behind that flag. The example we all watched – absolutely weird (reminded me of the cowbell sketch on SNL).
mbaker // March 4, 2007 at 3:01 am |
tj,
I too have the same questions. My fear is we are seeing so many of these false prophets when a real warning we should heed comes along we’ll dismiss it, because these guys have prophesied falsely so long.
That’s why we need to shut them down.
If each believer would start speaking out about it then we might get some of the churches that are into this to reconsider. Sadly, there are very few who will ,even though they know it’s not right.
Mary2 // March 4, 2007 at 8:59 pm |
tj,
I absolutely agree-a true prophet need not anounce to the crowd he’s a prophet, the real ones are too humble for such nonsense.
mark jr. // March 4, 2007 at 9:11 pm |
Discernment,
Thank you for getting the transcription of that video here for us. You’re awesome for that!
It’s funny: just listening to her made no sense, and now reading what she said makes even less sense.
Like I said, need I say more?
mark jr.
Mary2 // March 5, 2007 at 2:23 am |
Wait, Iwan-
I have had encounters with spiritualists before, and I ‘ve seen their brochures. – I googled worship and flags and looked up the one site from the elijah list group- the Deborah flag- now tell me that is not the same creepy wierd looking stuff the spiritualists use. Or something you’d see on an tara card. unbelievable!!!
Mary2 // March 5, 2007 at 12:07 pm |
i.e. http://www.thefoolishthingshomestead.com
Iwanthetruth // March 5, 2007 at 3:19 pm |
Here is the premise behind all of these “flags” and even “dance”. Which for me personally, I don’t have a problem with dance, if done properly. The teaching is along the lines of, “The worshipers, dancers, and flagger (be better on the highway directing traffic) are first and foremost giving their talents back to the Lord as a “Sacrifice of Praise” (I know, I know what happened to the fruit of our lips) and giving to him as a gift, the talent or “gifting” that has been placed in them by Him.
Secondly, it is a way of painting a picture of God or if there is a Word (from the scriptures or prophetically) a picture of that word through the arts. A form of story telling, which Jesus did alot of. Example would be the musical play “Peter and the Wolf”. You hear only the music but it paints a picture in your mind of the whole story. But ultimately, it all gets back to “experiential — self-centered — me oriented – vain imagination” of God. I have to admit the first time I saw this with all of the participants, dancers and those with flags and worshipers (musicians and singers), because it was a more choragraphed incident, it was quite something to “see” and it was “moving”. Was it wrong? Not sure even to this day because of the end outcome did seem to focus on Jesus. The jury is still out on that. But I have seen some stuff that has been pretty “out there” and pretty NOT focused on the Lord.
So in the incident of the taped prophetic word that we saw, frankly, I would liked to have slapped that flag right out of the persons hands because it was blocking our view. Ha! The incident was just not scriptural in my eyes and mind and it once again made the church look foolish. What earthly reason for it and how does that speak to the “outsider” who might have stepped into that situation. It certainly didn’t preach Jesus. Oh wait, that’s it. It wasn’t and isn’t for the non-believer, it had nothing to do with evangelism. It was for “their own pleasure” besides you propbably had to pay to get in and see this. Money changers!!!!
seeker // March 7, 2007 at 6:15 pm |
trying to view the clip but can’t access it. is it still viewable?
seeker // March 7, 2007 at 6:54 pm |
never mind, i got through and saw it. hmmmmmm??????
seeker // March 7, 2007 at 6:58 pm |
mark j., that song had me cracking up!! toooooo much……..that was great!!!!!!!!
iseeitdifferently // March 8, 2007 at 12:11 am |
Yah, I thought it fitting.
Hope you can stay around…I’m not very “seeker” sensitive…
…errr, okay, that was dumb.
mark jr.
Drew // March 14, 2007 at 12:41 am |
WOW You guys are harsh! I just want more of Him and as long as the fruit of any manifestations is that we desire him more and seek to do His will I don’t care what it looks like. Do we know this Campbell person and the fruit in their personal life? There is always going to be flesh appearing in every move of God. Just look at your church on Sunday Morning. They can dress nice and look good and say the right things but… Just give me more of Jesus. I’ll trust Him to increase His Spirit in my life and not give me a fake.
Matt 7:11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
KETER // March 14, 2007 at 5:42 am |
Amen Drew,
I can hardly believe you guys. Those lead by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God. Being one who has been radically saved out of addiction to many deadly things and filled with a new man, a new spirit I can testify that this woman of the Lord may not be my style of Christian at all but she is speaking truth and nothing she says is not in line with God’s character. And which of you were around to see the prophets prophesying, how about Jesus spitting in the mud and wiping it in someones eyes and then they were’nt even healed, they had to walk across town and bath in a public pool, that would also be embarissing to the church . WHEN DID ANY OF YOU SEE THIS WOMAN’S LIFE LIVED OUT OR KNOW OF HER PERSONALLY. JUDGMENT IS NOT FOR YOU!!!!
Christ have mercy on these for they know not what they do. Please Lord bless them with a greater revelation of your son and His Spirit.
mark jr. // March 14, 2007 at 10:34 am |
You guys are funny…
…’preciate the good laugh…
mark jr.
Dwen // March 14, 2007 at 2:37 pm |
Oh WOW! If I just had all the answers that you baptist type have. I don’t really like what I saw in my flesh but nobody said revival is pretty. Leonard Ravinhill once said that if God were to give us the revival we say we want it would be like putting newborn babes in the deep freeze. Look at the past revivals and tell me how pretty they were. They would blow all your religious institutions to pieces. All that believe in the redemptive blood of Jesus are saved. Doesn’t matter if you like them. Amish to the most out there “cukts” as you have so judged. Because its all in the blood and I don’t have to be perfect, just a heart for him. Oh Ya, abut judging, I don’t judge other belivers if they disagree with me for their doctrine because I don’t want God to use that measure against me. Grace is so awesom, like my God. Enjoy the laugh if its Godly. Bless you all with the richest blessing of the Father.
Mary // March 14, 2007 at 6:01 pm |
Drew, Keter,
I fear for you both if watching that video doesn’t give a check in your spirit.
mbaker // March 14, 2007 at 7:24 pm |
Dwen,
We’re not all “baptist types”. Many of us on this forum are practicing charismatics, including Mark, Jr himself. That’s why we’re so concerned that our denomination is getting way beyond what is written, and the Bible clearly says we are not to do that.
I think you are right that we aren’t, any of us, ready for revival. We’re all too entrenched in our individual denominational beliefs to handle the real thing right now. It will probably take some real persecution of the American church to wake us all up, because we’re all too pampered and pragmatic.
Because we are all saved by the blood of Jesus, doesn’t make it all right to operate outside of Biblical guidelines. Such bizarre displays as this “prophecy” cheapen His grace, and make a mockery of true biblical prophecy.
Drew // March 14, 2007 at 9:17 pm |
Well Mary, I haven’t watched the video and I don’t know where to. I don’t need to in order to make my point here. I said I don’t care what it looks like. She can roll down the side walk into Mcdonalds for all I care as long as when she gets up she is different. I’m saying if we don’t know the individual and their personal walk with Jesus then I won’t judge the manifestation. I have seen some wierd things and ask people afterward what that was about. A lot of times you’ll get a good answer and sometimes the fruit isn’t seen for some time as God develops His work in us. Early judgement is like pulling the butterfly from the cacoon early and killing whats being created cause it took to long or it looks dead. If its not of God, God’s character is bigger than any harm some fleshly, self serving individual is going to cause Him. If this persons personal walk don’t line up with God’s will then I will agree my spirit should say whoa. But if they are reaching others to Christ and helping to encourage other to reach out then bless God He has chosen to touch them this way. I don’t want to chase after the signs but the One who gives them but never do I want again to reject His gifts or manifestations, Never! I want more of His Spirit and I still stay as in Luke 11:13If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
Give me more!
Mary2 // March 14, 2007 at 10:25 pm |
Drew, I applaud your eagerness for the spirit of Christ to be stronger in you. I’m all for that. Maybe you ought to read Mark’s post on “In Spirit And In Truth.”
Mary2 // March 14, 2007 at 10:26 pm |
You can click on THIS clip at the top of the post and download the video.
mark jr. // March 14, 2007 at 10:51 pm |
Is it Drew, or Dwen?
I smell a rat…
…
Drew // March 14, 2007 at 11:18 pm |
Mark, you are super cool.
Drew
Dwen // March 14, 2007 at 11:47 pm |
mbaker, I never intend to or leave the impression that once we are saved then nothing else matters. My point was that I can be the craziest person on the face of the earth and be dead wrong on everything except that I stand on the blood of Jesus and still be saved. As a PK I was never allowed to judge other peoples beliefs except to discren in my spirit if that was wrog for me. By that I mean that it was allright to decide that I’m not convinced thats what God has for me(judge fruits, not manifestations) but to go the next step and say as soon as I don’t get it or that is not my experience it must be of the devil. I once said there is no such thing as the “baptism of the Holy Spirit” based on my knowledge and experience as a Mennonite. Didn’t make me right. I once heard that through out history it is always those involved in the last move of God resist the current move the most. It was the lack of holiness in the charsmatic move that made me want nothing to do with it. The individuals I know today involved with God’s new move have personal lives of extreme integrity. The Charmatic move of the 70s is about as effective today as the past efforts of the 50s in ministry to real world where I live. Personally, I look forward to seeing you in glory. Get a bigger box or better yet let God kick the sides out. God loves ya, stay in love with Jesus. He Rocks
ps I know of Drew and he wishes he was me
mark jr. // March 14, 2007 at 11:54 pm |
I love you Drew.
Mary2 // March 15, 2007 at 12:11 am |
I’m confused.
Drew // March 15, 2007 at 12:38 am |
you should be, this Mark guy is just to cool. I humbly yield to wit & intelligence of my good fiend
Mary2 // March 15, 2007 at 1:09 am |
so I’ve been dooped lol
Drew // March 15, 2007 at 1:30 am |
not really Mary2, I have. He changed my response #51to what it is and I found it amusing and true. I am who I say I am and not that other guy who thinks I want to be him.
I’m not on this site with 2 identities. Just little ole me. Does that help or just more confusion
Mary2 // March 15, 2007 at 1:52 am |
I think I get it-too funny. Hey are you mennonite guessing by your link? My husband and I love to hang out in amish/mennonite country near us in lancaster PA. That is too cool.My favorite place in the world.
Mary2 // March 15, 2007 at 1:57 am |
eerr your not dwen then?
mbaker // March 15, 2007 at 4:05 am |
Dwen,
Regarding Some of the folks you refer as “the indivuduals I know today involved with God’s new move have lives of extreme integrity.” Hope they don’t include Bob Jones or Paul McCain, a couple of forerunners, who have been involved in sexual misconduct, alcoholism and homesexuality, and were dismissed from their ministries because of it.
As far as a “get a bigger box, better yet let God kick the sides out”, let’s be sure we don/t get so full of ourselves doing that that we forget God, and kick the teeth out of the Bible in the process!
Suggest you do a lot of research into the the ‘”new wave” or “third wave movement” and see just what you’re getting yourself into before you make such a sweeping judgement.
Iwanthetruth // March 15, 2007 at 4:49 am |
[...] God’s new move…[..] And what in your estimation is that new move pray tell???? Is God changing things?
mark jr. // March 15, 2007 at 10:09 am |
Good fiend? Like a nice villian?
Is that like a “good” acid trip?
I used to have those, but like, I know that none were “good”.
Or typo?
HA…yes yes, I have power…power I tell you, muha ha ha ha…
Love ya,
mark jr.
Dwen // March 15, 2007 at 10:25 am |
bye , God B;ess
Drew // March 15, 2007 at 10:30 am |
Mary2. answer, no I’m not but agree with most of what he has said
mbaker. why do we always have to pick the extreme sins to condem the who lot. I personally know pastors that had drinking problems. Does that take credibility from all pastors for the few that drink? I knew a methodist pastor caught in a porno store does that mean all methodist are perverts? No, lets get back to the individuals and their personal lives. Do they love Jesus more than a year ago? If so how can it be bad? I serve a God of grace, understanding and restitution. And if I carry the name of the Lord out front for others to see then I’d better be living a clean life that shows the goodness and holiness of my God.
I wantthetruth. Check out your history. “Waters On Dry Ground” i think is the title of one I read years ago. All your present day denominations started with revival and Holy Spirit outbreaks. The pattern repeats itself over and over. With in a generation man figured out how to control it and then another out break and a new denomination began and then… History supports that God starts new moves because man has a tendancy to sufficat the previous move. We with our limited minds limit God. Room for deception? oh ya! But in my past there was lots of deception, tradition.
Iwanthetruth // March 15, 2007 at 2:44 pm |
Drew,
Were those new moves based on a “change” or a “new thing” a “new wine skin” a “new definition of the Word” or were they moves of the the Lord that brought about “repentence and salvation” according to His word? Were they (revivals) built on “sound doctrine” or not? Were they a “new thang” that when tested would pass the instructons and foundation of the teachings of Christ? These revivals that came about, where they lasting, did they continue through a long period or did the churches that had these revivals seem to fall apart after a time?
[...] why do we always have to pick the extreme sins to condem the who lot.[...]
I am not sure that the types of problems (sins) that people have such as “drinking” or “porn” are the type that could possibly lead us into a situation as described in the scriptures. Some of these “holy spirit” moves comes out of a “theology” that man has mis-interpreted from the scriptures and I am afraid some day the scripture that says these false teachers and prophets will stand before the Him saying, “But Lord, Lord, we prophesied and healed and did signs and wonders in your name!” and He will say, “I know you not, away from me.”
Where do they (false prophets and teachers) go?
You say “look at their lives, you don’t know them”, well I know alot of really great Mormon friends, but that doesn’t mean that their interpretation of the scriptures or the prophets of that denomination are rightly dividing the word and in reality they are leading people astray. Could it possibly be that these people who in the “name of the Lord”, are doing the same thing?
The bible is very clear that all things are to be done decent and in order and that the “spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophet” and my issue is that those who do what this lady did on the video are not “decent and in order” (I Cor 12-15) and I bet you she couldn’t remember what she even said and that is not being, “the spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophet”. So my point?
There is a “leading of the elect astray” in this “third wave”, “new reformation”, “prophetic movement” and there is little room in the Word of God to be “Oh well, they are people who love the Lord and we will just let them do what they are doing because God is bigger and we’ll get the truth of the teachings, (pragmatic thinking), we’ll find God in some way out of it”. Balderdash!
I love these people in the Lord, I do not hate them, but I am very concerned about what these people are teaching us and where they are leading us and I just don’t see it being correct or “doctrinally correct”. “A little yeast affects the whole loaf” does it not?
Hey it’s a new day and the sun (son) is shining in my part of the world. Have a great one!
Mary // March 15, 2007 at 4:09 pm |
Drew,
If you read Mark’s post on “In Spirit And Truth” and watch the video tell me HOW DOES THAT GLORIFY JESUS CHRIST? Is that not close to channeling? Have you ever been exposed to occultish practices or the new age. I would encourage you to read up on how it is seeping into the church or no it’s not slowing seeping in-it’s there! There are some good books out there, really. You are going to the extreme of traditional dry spiritless church to embracing what ever glitters and not everything that glitters is gold.
mark jr. // March 15, 2007 at 9:40 pm |
I definitely ain’t against Holy Spirit outpouring. I’ve never said that or even hinted at it dude. You’re taking what I say about certain errors and somehow stretching it to mean I’m anti-charisma. I don’t know how you got to that conclusion, but I guess you’re the only one here qualified to judge, even though we aren’t qualified to judge others whose ministries I have personally sat under.
Before you try to “put me in a box”, maybe read a little more around here and get a feel for my history with these movements. I’m no outsider looking in….I’m an insider looking around!
If it helps you calm down a little, here’s a list of my favorite and most inspiring men of God (in my estimation):
Leonard Ravenhill
Art Katz
David Wilkerson (and Carter Conlon)
Paris Reidhead (you absolutely MUST hear “Ten Shekels and a Shirt”)
Duncan Campbell (go to my sermon index link and listen to “When God Stepped Down From Heaven”)
Ray Comfort (I know how to talk to the lost because of him!)
A.W. Tozer
Dr. Michael Brown, Bob Gladstone (I go to their church actually)
Keith Green
I’m sure there are alot more, I just can’t think of them right off hand.
How many people do you know who listen to those men on a regular basis and are scared of revival?
?
Lighten up son, you “don’t even know me”…to levy your own statement toward your same kinds of judgments.
Which makes me wonder, how am I so unqualified to judge these matters yet you are so qualified to judge our motives for judging? Isn’t that judgmental? Do you really know why I’ve finally written these things down after years of partaking in it? Aren’t you being presumptuous to guess that it’s just cuz I’m scared of revival? You mean to tell me that no other possible explaination entered your mind? That’s open, honest and fair!
Gotta get in da chower..
mark jr.
Drew // March 16, 2007 at 12:07 am |
Iwanthetruth
You set ‘new wine skins’ in a negative light. Matt 9:17 Jesus refers to new wine skins so I guess I don’t get the ‘bad’ of it. Do your research on the past revivals. They had to shut down the bars because of the unsaved who change their lives and followed Jesus. these revivals changed villages and countries. How long did they last? likely until man took charge and the Spirit left. I don’t know how long. Does Satan bring the lost in the Kingdom, change lives, beak additions and bondages? You answer that but I’d be careful not to attribute the works of the Spirit to satan. The Cain Ridge Revival of Kentucky would be one with many positive results. Most seem to have brought division in the church also. Some of us like it the way it is and some don’t. I guess the question is, Is it my revival or Gods? If God has ever ask me how He should do anything I missed it.
The Moravians revival resulted in a twenty four hour prayer covenant which was to become such a feature of their life for over 100 years.
And am I to assume that you are saying because anything can be done with wrong motives we shouldn’t desire or strive to achieve the miraculous things of God? I think we’re spending to much time on why we shouldn’t be proclaiming and demonstrating the Kingdom in an effort to be “safe”. Paul said 1Cor 2:4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: 5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. The whole of Christ’s training with His disciples was preaching the Kingdom Of God and healing the sick, raising the dead, cleansing the lepers and casting out demons. Then on top of it He actually taught them to pray Matt 6:10Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. I will take a chance that since He taught them to pray it it was for NOW. WOW where is the church on that one? To try to convince me that I’m chasing after some wild teaching of some deceptive demonic spirit is kinda out there I think.
And did I suggest that if you live right it don’t matter what you believe? What’s with the Mormon thing? I think I made it very clear that my life has to, must stand to the scrutiny of The Word of God. Your not going to get away with that kind of distraction from the discussion at hand. All I have been saying is real simple, If people are growing closer to Jesus and loving Him more and more what is the problem? If they are seeking God, He will lead them. He loves them more than I ever could and will bring people into relationship with them to correct them. They don’t need me criticizing them from a distance. I don’t want to be misunderstood. I love the Word of God dearly friends, and think it should always be our standard.
Decent and in order. Fully agree. Who is going to define it and by what standard do we chose to define it. Different cultures in our own country have far different order in their services.
I would suggest that may be a church service where the lost are not saved, the kingdom is not preached, the sick are not healed and the captives are not set free. This is a service that is indecent and out of order when compared to the example of Jesus instruction and the book of Acts.
The leading astray happens in every denomination. It happens when we deny portions of scripture or explain them away. When the sick are told maybe He doesn’t want to heal. When we accept sins as homosexuality because we really don’t believe God has the power to save and deliver anymore. Or I like this one, it went out with the Apostles.
Do we just avoid Christianity because it is full of false teaching? It sounds like giving up the fort to me. No, I’m more than a conqueror in Christ Jesus, Greater is He that is in me than that liar damn to eternal fire. I’m going after the Kingdom and I don’t say that in a holier than thou attitude. I know you love the God and we have different views obviously, but you do chase after Him also.
The leaven thing can get old though. Leaven is everywhere in our churches and if I start picking it out where “I see it” soon there will only be me left and then it will be God’s turn to go to work on me. I don’t expect to have it all out until I die but I strive and press toward the mark of the high calling in Christ. Blessings to you.
Mary,
I live in the woods and at this point have no access to high speed except satellite. To costly for me no more than I need it. No I haven’t seen the video and I just brushed through the other posts. But I am quite aware of new age and actually was the lead man in getting an end put to it in our local schools here in the early mid 90’s. Yes satan is good counterfeiter and comes as an angel of light. I don’t concede the spirit realm to him or the kingdom of darkness. Traditionalism is in every group I don’t care how new it is. It just becomes a new tradition. I want to make His will and the pursuit of His holiness my tradition. Not there yet! But want to move to that end. Blessings to you also Mary.
I have seen the demonic surrender to the authority of Jesus Name.
I have seen the sick healed.
I have seen bondages broken
I have seen young people set free from divorce and sexual abuse.
I have seen my son go into Walmart and go to a complete stranger and bring healing to her broken body
Never, Never, Never will I be talk out of the power of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
N E V E R !
Drew
Love you all and Mark, you really are cool and have an interesting site.
Ps. Mary – Mbaker Hmmm something looks a little fishy. Whats that smell?
Love you all
Mark jr I hope #67 wasn’t about something I said
mbaker // March 16, 2007 at 12:22 am |
Drew,
I think you just ansered your own questions when you said, “if I carry the name of the Lord out front for others to see then I’d better be living a clean life that shows the goodness and holiness of my God.”
I believe a minstry is only as strong as it’s leadership. If they are not practicing what they preach, both morally as well as doctrinally, then they are not following in the footsteps of Jesus, as true shepherds and examples of His holiness for His flock.
If indeed they were loving Jesus more, and that goes for all of us, they would be concerned as much with what their personal actions make the entire church, His Body and Bride, look like to the rest of the world.
Right now, we in the church are a laughingstock, a brunt of jokes, objects of one scandal after another. Correct me if I’m wrong, but as born again Christians aren’t we supposed to be reflecting the morality of Christ and His salvation to the world by no longer being examples of bad news ourselves?
mbaker // March 16, 2007 at 12:36 am |
Drew,
I thought your aguments in this post were good down to the point where you made that remark about “Mary-Mbaker, something looks a little fishy. What’s that smell?” Are you perhaps inferring we are one and the same? I can assure you that’s not the case. I don’t know Mary,except from her comments on this forum. If you had read all the other posts on here you would see that. Talk about being judgemental. You just gave a prime example of it!
mbaker // March 16, 2007 at 12:49 am |
And no one here is denying the spirtual gifts and their power. We are objecting to the misuse of them. Yes, those of us who have had first hand experience with these folks actually KNOW of what we speak, from personal experience.
Can you speak from eyewitness accounts? You have said you’ve not even seen the video we are speaking of. So what exactly is it that you are objecting to in this discussion? We are not making a case for cesessionism, as you seem to suggest. We are only asking for more Godly accountability in the manifestations of these gifts. What’s wrong with that?
Drew // March 16, 2007 at 1:07 am |
mbaker
I was just making fun of mark jr’s comment a while back suggesting that dwen and drew we’re the same. Nothing intended personal towards you or mary. Its was more for marks enjoyment, just a spoof of # 50
sorry
I have been to meetings where Bob Jones was speaking along with some other prophetic types. All I heard where I sat was Jesus lifted.
I didn’t see the Bible abused, likely didn’t agree with everything I heard either but we rarely do, do we?
I have been in Toronto and have personaly (and other family members) experienced some of the “wierd” manifestations. Over 10yrs of it and I love Him more tday than I ever did.
I just started this whole thing off stating I thought you guys were a little harsh. sounded very judgemental. (Hey Mark, Why don’t you incorperate a spell check in this thing?) We all love Jesus and as far as I’m concerned we can leave it at that and trust God to lead us into righteousness. Blessings to all, the best of what He can give you, exceedingly above all you can ask or think. Cause He is just that kind of God
Drew
Iwanthetruth // March 16, 2007 at 1:21 am |
Drew,
“You set ‘new wine skins’ in a negative light.”
I set “new wine skins” in negative light when someone tells me that God is doing a new thing that is contrary to His word but uses that scriptures as a reason for it. When all along the “new wine skin” is based on unsound doctrine, a theology that is contrary to the word of God. I was trying to understand what you were saying in previous comments and I wanted to “hear” your response in light of that. I may have not read you correctly. Jesus is the same yestreday, today, and forever. God says I never change (Mal) And (Hebs), God never changes as the shifting shadows.
“Decent and in order. Fully agree. Who is going to define it and by what standard do we chose to define it.”
How about we let the bible define it. Paul was certainly clear that we need to be decent and in order or those who come in from the outside will think we are fools!
“What’s with the Mormon thing?”
Point here is that if we are going to be of the attitude that Hey, what ever God wants to do and let these men teach us whatever and it all seems biblical yet unsound, then we are doing just what man did to develope the Momon doctrine which is not biblical. Then why test anything to the Word of God. Why be even using the authoritative Word.
“I guess the question is, Is it my revival or Gods?”
This is my very point. It seems to me that some current “revivals” may have been more of man, “flesh” looking for the “experiential” or “emotional” rather than allowing a true revival of “repentance and salvation” occur. I am not saying that God didn’t move in these revivals, but I am saying there are things that occured including the “physical manifestations” that even the video shows that is not,(and I think Paul explains decency and in order pretty well in I Cor.) biblically appropriate. I will try and find the link of a letter written by one of the pastors who was a primary leader in the Toronto Blessing and he apologizes to the church because of the things that were soooo not of God. Lot of physical manifestations in that and Brownsville. Both revivals based on the “same prophetic word”
“I would suggest that may be a church service where the lost are not saved, the kingdom is not preached, the sick are not healed and the captives are not set free. This is a service that is indecent and out of order when compared to the example of Jesus instruction and the book of Acts”
Great analogy, I would even agree, but I do believe, once again we are getting instruction from Paul that the gifts of the Holy Spirit need to be in order. And that is (some of us) our premise in this blog. That the video was “OUT OF ORDER”.
“The leaven thing can get old though. Leaven is everywhere in our churches ….”
I would agree with this but is it not also our place that when we see or hear something that as we test it to the word, it is our responsibility to correct, reprove, and edify, rightly dividing the word? As in I Timothy, so that we not only ..”save ourselves but the hearer also.” And I am not by a bible right now but I believe in Col. there is a scripture that says that if a person who is doing false teaching does not correct themselves but continues to teach falsely, we are not to continue with them and not even give them a blessing as we are then considered by the Lord to be participants in the false teaching. (definately my paraphrase) I’ll find it later and post it.
Drew , I guess I am reacting to some of your first comments and I had gotten the feeling that you were kind of in “different strokes for different folks” place. I may have totally misunderstood you and I apologize for that if I have. I read your comments a few times and was just a bit unclear. But the more you explain I understand where you are coming from and I think we can agree to disagree in certain areas. You are right though, I love my Lord and I will follow after Him the best a can each day, and each day he teaches me truth from his word.
Blessings
Jen // March 16, 2007 at 3:35 am |
“I came across an account that went something as follows: someone who was giving a prophesy or acting out in a revival and when confronted by the leadership of the church the person began manifesting a demon who said he was a spirit of jesus-a false jesus that was sent to deceive the body of believers in this church. If I can find it I’ll post the web address but it really reminds me of this video”
Mary – could you find this video and paste the link? I am very interested to see it!
Thanks
Mary2 // March 16, 2007 at 4:43 am |
yeah give me some time-I have to find it and tonight it’s too late.
mark jr // March 16, 2007 at 9:56 am |
I don’t know how to do the spell check thing. Sorry…we mess up enough interpret the hieroglyphics.
I wrote my previous response for the sake of anyone who is under the misnomer that I’m afraid of a move of God or shakings in the church or whathaveyou.
Still loving Jesus more than ever after experiencing what isn’t from His Spirit is only evidence of His grace to keep you, not of His approval of barking like dogs, slithering like snakes, running around the room screeching like a hawk and flapping your arms and all the other crap from Toronto that they label the work of the One who is called HOLY.
Many revivals start out great and end tragically for this very thing I speak of so much, that being that nobody is willing to remove the worthless from the precious. Mixture is the killer (Jer. 23). Adulterated meetings aren’t “good” at all anymore than Dutch chocolate brownies with 2% cat dookie are “good” for you. It tastes great, but you just ate animal crap.
I guess we could just focus on the 98% of the brownie that’s good though…
…or be willing to believe that God is a better “cook” than that.
I gotta go to work…
…have a good day all…
btw, if you guys are doing all your typing on this blog or on the SOJ blog, I hope you’re not doing it on your bosses dime…you’re not paid to come here. That would be both lying and stealing…
…just been thinking about that lately and needing to say something.
Don’t you dare get caught on a “christian” blog when you’re supposed to be working…use your breaks or something.
Love you guys,
mark jr.
mark jr // March 16, 2007 at 9:56 am |
I meant to say “we mess up enough to know how to interpret…”
mbaker // March 16, 2007 at 2:03 pm |
Not to worry, dad, I work for myself. Have a good one!
iseeitdifferently // March 16, 2007 at 2:20 pm |
lol
Drew // March 17, 2007 at 1:06 am |
Hey I saw the video. Was there a problem with what was said?
Iwanthetruth // March 17, 2007 at 1:22 am |
See comment #25 – It is a transcript of the tape… Do you find it to test to the word as being “on” as a true prophetic word?
Iwanthetruth // March 17, 2007 at 1:50 am |
Drew,
You know what I need to be able to answer that question myself. Actually, if you go back and read all of the comments we were pretty focused on what she did in the physical, but little was said about whether the word was correct ot not. I suggest that we take some time to read post #25 and test it and see if it fits.
Then we can post and have a discussion on what we believe the Holy Spirit is showing us about the word that was given. Is it biblical or not?
I do want to interject just this one thought. I have been a Christian for 39 years and frankly if this was in my church, just by the fact that I wouldn’t want a non-believer to be freaked or to be a “stumlbing block” to that person coming to know the Lord, I would probably make sure that the physical manifestation were controlled. I still stand on the premise that the “spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophet” meaning we can control ourselves and not be “out of order”.
I believe that God can do whatever He wants but ultimately He gave us the responsibility to make sure things are done properly and scripturally. I don’t want to ever be a hinderence to someone coming to know Jesus and I gotta tell you, I have seen this stuff make non-believers run and think we are all kooks, in fact I have seen it make believers run in disgust. So with that said, I think the physical part is run into the ground. Some of us think it is improper and others think it is ok. But how about the word itself. Is it scriptural. Let’s check it out and get back to one another.
Drew // March 17, 2007 at 2:19 am |
1 Peter 2: 5Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ
Lots of stones in surrounding verses.
Great transformation? Dear God I pray so and soon!!!
Do you believe in an end time harvest? God TV has been declaring a Billion souls for Christ. “exceedingly, abundantly, above all we can ask or think”
“Build a Church that the Gates of Hell will Never Prevail Against
Build your Church Lord Jesus. Build a Church that the gates of hell will never, ever, ever prevail against. Build it, build it, build it out of the little ones! Build it out of the teens. Build it out of the old bricks. Build it out of all the bricks. “
Sounds demonic? Come on guys, You don’t have to like the way it looks but wow, Jesus said a house divided against itself won’t last. Has satan decided to try a new approach? Praying to God to build the church?
And then I’m sure the devil was behind this “Let it be on the earth just like it is in Heaven!”
Someone wrote earlier in # 29 “she mentioned all the different stones except the main one-the cornerstone, which is Christ. So typical of the modern day prophetic movement.”
Whats this?
And all the stones come around the temple, and God is the temple in the middle of the stones. The Lamb is the temple, and the Lamb is the light. There’s no light, but the temple in the middle of the stones. The living stones!
Excuse my sarcassam (but I ‘ve seen it used several places on this site) but seriously you guys are just to critical. I don’t buy them all hook line and sinker either but give it an honest evaulation. It looks like a couple people who think alike getting together and telling each other your all OK and the rest of the world is messed up.
#31 “That’s why we need to shut them down. “ If God has called you to shut them down then you should put the effort to do it. I have seen some people in great error but unless God has put me in a postion where they are accountable to me I found I do more damage to the body of Christ than good by trying to fix it myself.
Give me a break, we don’t have flags waving in our church but is that wrong too? It just looks like a lot of fun poked at the whole thing. I was raised in a conservative non pentocostal type church in any way, shape or fashion. My parents who didn’t agree with them never tolerated us boys making fun of the “holy rollers”.
I’ve watched the video and I’ve read the manuscript. For myself I’m real cautious to join in your critizium. (wheres that spell checker?)
Blessing to all, Drew
Drew // March 17, 2007 at 2:37 am |
Iwanthetruth
I posted # 83 before I saw # 82 and frankly I have had some concerns Sunday Am in our church concerning outsiders too.
Our leadership has believes there are different services and times for the gifts to be excersied and it becomes a trick to figure out how to encourage people to allow freedom of the Spirit without contrlling what God wants to do. God give my pastor wisdom!! I can get past her manifestation if the message is right. I can’t get past any manifestation if it takes from Christ. I don”t believe it was out of place in that setting. as far as her actions? The miracle is not the movement, its that one can come into an encounter with such an awesome and powerful God and live thru it. I’ve had a few shocks of 110 volts and I moved that quick. Gods power would blow any electrical meter man has made.
Drew
ps. I’ve been a christian for 38yrs
Iwanthetruth // March 17, 2007 at 2:58 am |
Drew,
I don’t think any one on this post is opposed to a move of God. I think we just want it to be authentic and scriptural, as I am sure you do also. The flesh is awfully willing to get crazy at times and I personally have a hard time when I see some one just let it fly. I suppose because when I see that happening it tends to take my focus off of what the Lord my be saying which I think is more important that the actions of the body and then I miss the word that is so important for us. And if I am having a problem with it you know someone else is and if they are not a believer then what are we telling them.
I haven’t had time to re read the word and look up scrioture yet, but I will. Busy weekend. Discipleship meeting in the morning, Leading worship for a meeting at noon, leading worship for two service at churches on Sunday and a Sunday evening home meeting leaqding worship. Whew! I’ll get to it some time.
Later
iseeitdifferently // March 17, 2007 at 3:43 pm |
If you take a glance at my latest ramble, I took note that all false prophets in the O.T. were “scriptural”, yet still wrong.
Some words like this one from Stacey can have absolutely biblical language and speak of technically correct things. When Paul told the Corinthians to test prophecies he said they should “weigh” what is said. That, as I see it, is a two fold manner of judgment. First, it obviously has to pass the scriptural test.
But then there is the area of discerning the spirit by which it was spoken, i.e. human spirit vs. Holy Spirit.
How can you tell?
Now we get into a realm that is a little sticky.
Paul told the Phillipians (I think) to “let the peace of God rule your hearts”. The Holy Spirit bears witness to our spirit that we are His. 1 John 5:10 also mentions that if we are saved we have that testimony (almost implies a verbal speaking) in our hearts. This kind of discernment is beyond intellectual knowing of scripture, which false prophets are all too able to get around by using enough biblical language so as to fool the many.
When I hear what she says, instant disquiet and alarm are present. It’s as if that Spirit of Truth who guides into all truth shouts out, “I’m not doing that!! I don’t care how much like me it sounds, it didn’t issue from my prompting!” This prophecy is full of charismatic and even biblical cliches, but has not the resonance of Spirit behind it. It doesn’t have that same “inner echoing” affect that reading the Prophets has. It seems to be more along the lines of the false prophets of Jeremiah’s day who even had a very scriptural message, pretty well based in Deuteronomy’s promises to always protect and “never leave nor forsake you”. They no doubt were aware of Solomon’s prayer for the inauguration of the temple as well. “I will cause my Name to dwell there”, giving them reason to believe that God would never change His mind about that. They may have even banked on what God told Samuel, “I’m not a man that I should lie or change my mind”, ignoring that fact that God all through His law reserved for Himself the right to remove covenant blessing if Israel should become polluted.
My point is that being “biblical” isn’t even enough for judging this kind of stuff. Nevermind the fact that she made little or no sense and threw out a bunch of random statements.
“The DNA is in the stones”…
Heh? Vague, ambiguous, misty and clouded.
To be perfectly honest, I just have to say that I bear absolutely no Witness to that word as having issued from the one who is called The Word. Nothing about it bore His character. The Spirit of God doesn’t leave us ignorant. Ignoring inner alarms and conscience is never safe.
Why do we never find the prophets doing this while speaking? If Jesus was the quintessential prophet of all prophets, why didn’t He tremble like a madman? Did anyone have more of the Holy Ghost than Jesus? Then surely He should have exhibited some evidence of that kind that we see here.
Gotta go, lot’s of sunshine out today. Gotta get off this computer for a while and enjoy the outdoors.
mark jr.
mbaker // March 17, 2007 at 4:06 pm |
Drew,
Have you read the Derek Prince article that Mark, Jr. recommended above? It has some excellent guidelines in it to determine what is and isn’t of the Holy Spirit. And also why we should take a stand against such adulterated things like this prophecy by Stacy Campbell And he is a charismatic by the way. Mark also has a good article on this site regarding mixing the false and the true, and the results of that.
Check them out.
Drew // March 18, 2007 at 2:49 am |
This will likely be my last posting. It has become quit obvious that there are a few people with the only possible correct answer concern spiritual things. We can all interpret according to our understanding. The very same verses are seen from different perspectives and “thus saith the Lord” is often my interpretation.
Mark jr, your inconsistent in your last posting. You start by saying “Some words like this one from Stacey can have absolutely biblical language and speak of technically correct things.”
Then you go on to say “When I hear what she says, instant disquiet and alarm are present.”
If her words are Biblical and technically correct then what about the words do you find that sets off alarms?
“To be perfectly honest, I just have to say that I bear absolutely no Witness to that word as having issued from the one who is called The Word.” So now you are appointed the soul judge on whether or not a “word” is from God because you alone have the Holy Spirit checks and balances.
“Nothing about it bore His character”
I’m not even going to take my time to start with that one. You’re right and I’m betting your have the final and correct word on most every issue.
Not every word given is fully understood when it is given but revelation comes with time. You know your OT prophets then you must know that some prophetic words didn’t register to all the people for different reasons. When Jesus spoke propheticly concerning the rebuilding of the temple in 3 days they didn’t get it. Why? Because they had God already fit into their religion and it didn’t make sense to them. It did not change the reality of what He said. Only one example of many. My pastor had words spoken over him that meant nothing to others in the room because it was for him. Some words are not for you to understand but you can check for biblical consistancy. You said this had consistancy but you had a knee jerk reaction that you attribute to the Holy Spirit. Why do I question the Spirit influence in your reaction? Because I don’t see compassion for these “wayward people”. Decernment says “that isn’t right for me”. That is what discernment does. Stay away from that, looks ungodly. Great but that isn’t always God. A bad experience affects that as well and can put us in a protectionary mode. Judgement condems and sets out to destroy. That my friend is Gods job not yours or your friends. Harshness usually comes from unhealed hurts or signifigance (spellchecker) issues. You guys can give your opinions but use some compassion, you know, love.
My argument is not whether she is or isn’t correct. I know there are bad words given even if sometimes they are out of ignorance. Its about Godly attitudes toward others. I sure never want to learn and grow my giftings around you guys. I’m human with short comings and sometimes a slow learner. You guys would have me ripped to shreds in a flash. But We are all moving from glory to glory, step by step, precept upon precept.
I’m glad to be surrounded by people who work together encouraging each other to take chances and being able to talk about what went wrong.
Good day to all, Drew
Mary2 // March 18, 2007 at 4:49 am |
Drew,
You said: “My argument isn’t whether she is or isn’t correct-I know there are bad words given out of ignorance.” why isn’t your argument about whether she is or isn’t correct? Don’t you think as a believer in Christ you have the right to judge or discern whether something is or isn’t right? What are you afraid of-offending her? “It’s about Godly attitudes towards others” what is up with that? This is more than considering what she says is or isn’t right. It’s about the spirit manifesting in her. Drew you just aren’t getting it. If you don’t like what is being said here do a little surfing and google conterfeit spiritual encounters and things of this nature. This is not the only forum or site talking about these issues. Spiritual deception is the sign-the sign of the times which you don’t seem to understand. If you get lonely come back… we care about you and we’ll be here.
mark jr // March 18, 2007 at 1:06 pm |
“If her words are Biblical and technically correct then what about the words do you find that sets off alarms?”
THAT is how the false prophets throughout scripture decieved people. Especially in Jeremiah’s day. They spoke technically correct “truths” that lined up with scriptural teachings, yet they were not given of God for the speaking of them for the intent which they spoke them.
THAT is why folks get duped, like I used to be.
If all a message has to do is check out with technical truth then that means you have no faculty of inner discernment/witness to the Spirit of Truth who guides into all truth. If your only check and balance is your heads knowledge of scripture, you’re gonna swallow more nonsense like this.
The “witness” that I speak of is the exact same one that convicted me of sin, so I recognize Him from that eternal burn He put on my soul that day. It’s the same voice that tells me I sinned against my wife in a particular way I may have spoken to her, and then demands my apology to her. It’s the same inner voice that tells me I am His (1 john 5:10).
To ignore that inner alarm is neither biblical nor safe. Oswald Chambers used to always say, “when in doubt, don’t!”.
Being Spirit filled believers who’s God has promised to Abide in us, we can trust the “alarms” that issue from that same place that convicts, assures, loves, teaches and shapes us. I’m not an orphan, I know my Father.
No inconsistency at all. What is deception but majority truth with a minority of something foreign?
I recommend this sermon from Carter Conlon, if you have time or desire.
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=1724
He does a study on the word “prophesy” and gives its dual meaning, depending on who its applied to. When used of the man of God, it means to simply speak on behalf of God.
BUT…
…when used of false prophets it means, “to rave, to act insance, to play the madman accompanied by spasmodic jerks and loud shrieking”.
Hmm. Almost describes this so called prophecy to a “T”.
So wasn’t satan technically biblica when he quoted scripture to Jesus? I mean, it was biblical…
…but who did it issue from and can you tell the difference?
Knowing the difference is a serious end time issue. The stakes are so high in this.
Gotta go,
mark jr.
mbaker // March 18, 2007 at 4:32 pm |
Drew,
Certainly hope you will return, because we are not interested in ripping people to shreds, only in exposing false theology. I am always open to hear the other side, because one certainly cannot make an informed decision without it.
Discernment is a must, both you and Mark, jr.are completely right there. This is but child’s play as to what will happen when the anti-Christ comes on the scene. We will have to honestly confront unbelief and false teaching then, whether we like it or not. We may be separated then as a body of believers, so we won’t have any way to communicate, or read our Bibles or anything Christian, so it is absolutely imperative that we personally know the difference in the counterfeit and the real.
If I came to you offering to sell you gold, wouldn’t you want to check it out first to see if was the real thing? I submit that if I were an unbeliever I’d be much more dubious of any orgnization that claimed to stand for one thing, then permitted doing another. Isn’t that what most of us rightfully object to when our government officials do it? What’s the difference in expecting similiar accountability in the Body of Christ from it’s leaders? Shouldn’t we be even more concerned about that?
In the log run, it’s going to get worse in recognizing truth for us in the Body of Christ instead of better, if we don’t somehow band together and stand up against it right now. The welfare of the whole Body is at stake, when even a finger is infected. In the natural we take steps to do whatever it takes to heal it, before it poisons the whole body. I think that holds just as true in the supernatural as well.
You say that you couldn’t grow by being with us on this website. Could it be that God has you here to sharpen your discernment? At first, when I came here I was a little doubtful of the motives as well, but as time went on, and I began to see the people on here had a genuine desire for truth. I stuck around, simply because I could see they were fearless in their confrontation of anything that would diminish the truth our beloved Lord and Savior died to prove, whether it agreed with our denominational agendas or not. I personally find that a real breath of fresh air.
Sometimes it takes a lot more love and courage to speak out against a questionable belief our peers hold, but don’t we have to be honest with ourselves like Paul was to the Galatians and ask the question, “Am I now trying to please man or God?”
Isn’t it displaying a much greater love in the long run to want to cut out a cancer, before it destroys the whole body? The process of treating a cancer it is not ever pleasant in the short term, because the treatment is often dire. It requires some pain, suffering, patience and perservence, but we have the long term goal of healing in mind, so we submit to the temporary discomfort treatment causes for that reason.
I submit to you that being a Christian requires some of the same faith and endurance as we have to have when we suffer an ailment in the natural – a willingness to do whatever it takes to bring long term Godly healing to it, whether the treatment seems loving at the time or not.
mark jr // March 18, 2007 at 5:43 pm |
Yah,
and I ain’t trying to give an impression of not caring if you come or go, I just don’t have all the time in the world to answer every point in particular or every statement from everyone. I work full-time, husband full-time and father full-time. I don’t really have time to get into too many deep discussions so I write what I write and let the chips fall where they may.
And this is after years of being a participant in these movements, not just some outsider throwing stones. This isn’t “armchair theology”, this is from being in the foxhole and knowing the deal intimately. It’s not just bible “smarts” that I attempt to bring, but a knowledge of the underbelly of this thing. And yes, I do mean to put a sword in it. That will mean that names may be named and falsities shown as such. Wether the people I speak of are saved or not isn’t even an issue with me. The issue is the well meaning misguiding that happens. A baseball hit 400 feet foul by one inch is still a foul ball, not a homerun. In fact, it’s counted as a strike against you.
I love these folks, my good friends are in it. I just want to see their callings maximized and not taken away from by chasing sillyness.
“But they live holy”…
…and they are still chasing the wrong thing, but they’re just clean while they do it. The end result is the same, i.e. they can’t accomplish His perfect will because they chase what seems “good”.
The “good” is the enemy of the perfect.
mark jr.
Mary2 // March 18, 2007 at 10:59 pm |
Jen
I’m still trying to find the article. I’ll post it when I find it. I believe I was looking under conterfeit revivals but I havent been able to locate it.
Mary2 // March 19, 2007 at 12:04 am |
Drew,
One more thing if you are still around-I testify that this is no organized ministry that I’m aware of. I don’t know or have not met the people on this site. It’s not somekind of anti cult thing if that is what you are thinking and what I once thought. We’re just a bunch of misfit bloggers who happen to think that Mark Jr. does a pretty good job of rightly dividing the word of truth from a charismatic perspective. We really care about you.
Mary2 // March 20, 2007 at 10:40 pm |
You know I just want to add this- a little over 20 years ago as a new babe in christ, I had the opportunity to spend a summer with 17 other christians in a sorority house off of a small college campus. All summer long various “religious “groups came on that campus for a week long conference type of thing. There were the Bahi’s and tree huggers and other groups. But the last group to come were the spiritualists-the highlight of my summer -and perfect timing because we had just finnished having a missionary come speak on demonic possessions he had encountered and stuff. I went to the campus with some other christians and we talked with some people who were there. You could cut it with a knife- the spiritual heaviness there. But there was a woman we talked with and we told her we were christians studying the bible etc for the summer- and she said “Oh yes we are learning about the scriptures too-we are learning about the book of Genesis and how in the Garden of Eden after Adam and Eve were tricked by Satan , Adam thanked Satan for showing him(adam) who he truly was- that he had both good and evil in him. And they go together-good and evil- you need them both to be in harmony.” So 20 some years later now it’s in the Church down the street so to speak. This same kind of mixing of the two both good and evil with a label of christianity to it- a move of the Spirit of God.
Mary2 // March 21, 2007 at 1:28 am |
correction,
what I meant was- what they think is a move of God is not.
Mary2 // March 26, 2007 at 10:16 pm |
Jen,
and anyone else interested in my above post -here is the link-not sure this is the same article I was talking about above but it follows along the same lines of a demon named jesus mascurading as The Jesus. And in this article he is conterfeiting the Holy Spirit.
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/slain.htm
-I hope this isn’t an anti charismatic sight – I didn’t spend too much time on it.
Ben // May 6, 2007 at 6:34 am |
DUDE!!! that is trippy, why would yopu show me that, it is creepy, you can just picture a demon on her grill though bro, WEIRD
Shell // August 15, 2007 at 1:23 am |
I find it very ironic that I came upon your blog.
I am very Good Friends with Derek Prince’s family, I have also had the privelege of knowing Stacey Campbell and Patricia King for many years.
I must admit that it is bizzar to see these manifestations on video. For one thing, as video viewers you don’t see these people on a day to day basis, nor are you present to experience just how much they truly love God and how much “good fruit” is in their lives.
And what’s the real fear anyways?
That God might actually be powerful enough to shake things up a bit. . . I certainly hope so.
Iwanthetruth // August 15, 2007 at 10:45 pm |
Shell,
I happen to look at this site also. I am sure that the people you are talking about are wonderful people.
I am curious, if the “Word of God” (the scriptures) is sufficient for life and we are to guide ourselves bythe very “words” of our King or Lord Jesus and the instructions given to us through the Apostles, where in the scriptures do we get any indictation of this type of action to be done in a meeting together as the the body of Christ? If we are instructed to do things with “decency and orderliness” and even within the bretherin of today at is called foolish, how much more is it foolish to the world? To the lost?
How does that action, seen on a video, speak of the Love of Christ for us and what He did on the cross? You yourself said it looked a bit bizaare. So how does that video speak to that one person who may come upon it who doesn’t know Christ as Savior, and help them come to know Him personally? I really am curious how we can justify these actions>
Mary // August 17, 2007 at 11:58 pm |
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. 2 PET 2 :1-3
Mary // August 17, 2007 at 11:58 pm |
need the Word of God say anymore?
Matt // September 14, 2007 at 1:07 am |
I agree that for one thing, nobody here nor anywhere understands what in the world she is saying(what it means), it is chaotic, not resembling scripture, and weird.
However I think sometimes there are going to be movements, groaning, crying, etc. when the Holy Spirit shows up. I mean repentance is an ugly thing when the Lord shows us how we are.
As an example, I was brought back to the Lord by my martial arts teacher and we would spend Sundays learning, praying, sharing dreams and discipling. Well I haven’t trained with him for several years, but one thing that I do whenever I feel the Spirit come on strong is start moving around in my stances and do some motions with my hands as well.
I keep it toned down when there is a large group that doesn’t know me well, but to be honest when I’m alone with the Spirit I have my best martial arts practices ever! This also goes for drawing/painting and writing. The Spirit gives such a peace and such a joy that mental blocks just break down and inspiration comes easy.
I’m getting tired so I’ll leave it at that.
Matt // September 14, 2007 at 1:12 am |
OK I realized that that didn’t close up what I was saying.
My point is that flag waving, dancing, making noise, etc. is not a sign of satan per se. It takes individual discernment for each circumstance. How discouraging it would be for someone who is experiencing the Spirit to be bashed down and told that they were receiving a demon…
If you are suspicious at the time, it can be tested a la the good ol fashioned test from James
Lissa // September 25, 2007 at 8:20 pm |
I cannot say how grieved I am at the comments made on this site. I have been a Christian for 27 years and do not claim to know any answers about today’s “Christian movements,” however, I do know that Jesus warns us not to judge. There is a difference between testing a situation out, and gossiping about people in the body of Christ that you really know nothing about. Do you really think this is edifying the body of Christ? Do you really think this is what serving Jesus is really about? There is a difference between being objective and cautious about something spirtual and being downright nasty about others. I encourage those who defamed anyone on here to seriously repent. I do not know any of these evangelists, nor do I lay claim on any denomination or gifts of the Spirit. I am a conservative, homeschooling Christain woman, but the backbiting, slanderous comments grieved my spirit. Please reconsider what has been spoken, and whoever’s site this is, please reconsider your vision in life as a Christian. We are called to love God first, and others. Are you really doing that?
Merrill W Seroy // September 27, 2007 at 9:12 pm |
I’m down with the person that suggested Linda Blair. Secondly, if she does this regularly, she must have great neck and shoulder muscle strength! Finally, as the shepherd, so the sheep – have you ever seen Patricia King prophesy? Whoa!!!! Chooooo!
IWanthetruth // September 27, 2007 at 10:53 pm |
Personally, I think the point here is that 1) 1 Corinthains 12, 13 1nd 14 tells us that all things must be done decently and orderly (please don’t tell me it depends on how you define decent and orderly, we all know what that was meant by Paul) and 2) scripture also says that the spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophet. She could have controlled what she was doing and I myself may have taken her more seriously.
Paul tells us that those who might come into the meeting from the outside (unbeliever?) will think we are fools. If we in the church can look at that and say WHAT? how much more will the unbeliever.
IWanthetruth // September 27, 2007 at 11:03 pm |
Lisa,
Jesus also tells us to test all things and to tell false teachers /prophets to stop. I & 2 Timothy is loaded with instructions in that area, as well as many other of the Epistles, and Jesus warned us of this stuff also. None of us here are judging the persons characture or if she is a believer or not, I have no right to do that, but according to the word I do have a right to judge within the church if a word is out of place or even maybe our actions, but we do question the actions of what is going on in light of the many things that seem to be un/extra-biblical within th “prophetic movement & Apostolic/prophetic reformationist of today.
I myself have been a christian for 40 years and a pentecostal believer for 36 of those years. I have been in it all and seen much of what is shown on the video site and never have I seen such blatent physical manifestation in all of my Christian years and attribute it to the Holy Ghost. Again even if it were Him, apparently we are instructed to control ourselves for the sake of the unbeliever.
“We are called to love God first, and others. Are you really doing that?
Yes, we are by warning others of possible heresy, extra-biblical teachings. In Timothy he is told by Paul to tell the false teacher to stop so that he (timothy) and the hearers may be saved. Seems to be a pretty important point for us believers in Christ Jesus.
Lissa // September 30, 2007 at 11:26 pm |
Dear Mark, Thank you so much for your kindness. I understand you have a heart for truth. That is so wonderful…we need more of that today. I could not agree more with you about testing the spirits. In fact, I have been in much prayer regarding these issues and also studying deeply in the Word regarding what the truth is. I too, deeply care about truth. I hate things that are false, lies, deception, anything of the sort. We each have a different calling or direction in life, and if this is what God has you doing, then what am I going to say? I have one thought regarding how this came across to me. As Paul says that we are to “tell the false teacher to stop,” is that what you are doing….or talking about people in the body of Christ to debate whether things are good or not? We are each told individually to test the spirits, and to tell the false teacher to stop, as well as we are told to do everything to keep peace among brethren, and not to be slanderers. If this is what you feel in your heart to do….then keep doing it, and I believe that God will use it. Your heart for truth is a blessing and I thank you for that. God Bless, Melissa
IWanthetruth // October 1, 2007 at 3:26 pm |
Lissa,
First Lissa, I am not Mark Jr. I was just responding to your post because I felt that I wanted to give some clarification as to why I am in the place that I am in and why I am outspoken in the issue of truth.
You stated, “I have one thought regarding how this came across to me. As Paul says that we are to “tell the false teacher to stop,” is that what you are doing….or talking about people in the body of Christ to debate whether things are good or not?
As a matter of fact, I have talked to those who I believe have mis-interpreted the scriptures and are teaching false truth. When I say this I am speaking of those in my immediate surroundings, in my own church and town.
I believe that most of these sites that are focused on “Apologetics” are truely trying to be focused on what the scriptures say and how maybe those who are teaching are leading astray those in the Body of Christ wrongly because of either a belief in an “un-sound doctrine” and/or mis-interpreting the Word of God. They are not tryning to “slam” anyone characture or even say that they are not a Christian. Far be it for us to do that.
I also have found that many of the site owners have indeed approached those who are teaching about why they feel there is error. What I believe happens is that many of us get very passionate about wanting to see the truth taught that we sometimes forget to maybe use a “word softly spoken” to win one over. But then the Apostle Paul certainly didn’t mince words and Our Lord Jesus was pretty direct.
I do want to thank you for bringing to mind that at times we need to be careful how we communicate these issues to others.
Blessings on you
Benjamin // October 15, 2007 at 5:29 am |
Hey guys, someone said to type in WORSHIP + FLAGS…well I did
http://www.flagworship.com/Welcome.html
Need I Say more
James // October 29, 2007 at 10:55 pm |
I find it interesting that you all have the time to rip apart a ministry because you feel its not good. Doesn’t the bible talk about angels being on assignments? And doesn’t the bible talk about signs and wonders will follow those who believe? I have seen many healed and set free from some of these ministries you are tearing apart. How many people have you laid hands on and seen healed? or how many captives have you set free? Clearly I think you need to do the work of the Lord and focus on Him and stop tearing one another apart. People like you are the reason people don’t want to know Christ because they don’t see love but instead a hatred for your brother….
J
Vince // October 30, 2007 at 5:35 am |
This blog is not about tearing people apart, rather it is about upholding biblical truth. The Bible is the lens we use to filter through all the hoaky stuff going on in the “Church.” We are more worried about upholding truth on this blog than appealing to peoples emotions. I think if you read through Mark’s about section as well as the Blogs you gain some wisdom in theses areas.
Samuel // October 30, 2007 at 4:15 pm |
Hey james, I would also suggest that you just stick around here, and just read some of the other blogs. In this day in the church we need people who are willing to sift out the false from the truth. Even when their character is totally misunderstood. What is more important TRUTH, or man made ministries.
This blog is just warning people from these “ministries” that aren’t biblical. If you read Pauls letters to the church and read them in the context of that day, paul brought up issues that were very controversial. Paul even had to rebuke a man who laid his head on Jesus’ chest (Peter, Eph. 3). Their is many thing out their that will try and look like Jesus, and even do amazing things like singes and wonders, “On that day many will say lord, lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many wonders in your name?” Read v.23 and you will find out what our lord said.(Matt. 7:22). Wonders is not enough in it self, Jesus said that not me.
So just stick around here and read some of his other blogs, read them in context, look at all the scripture he uses, and you find it very enlightening, and true. So please stick around, its always good to have another person to ask questions and talk this stuff over with.
iseeitdifferently // October 30, 2007 at 10:19 pm |
Hey James,
Thanks for at least taking enough time to read the post. Hopefully you’ll peruse a few other writtings and find that I’m not against healing, prophesying, tongues or even raising the dead.
I’m a mostly charismatic guy, if you need a category to put me in that’s more accurate than the one you’ve tried to put me in…
I don’t have to accept ministries like this. I just don’t. Please read Jeremiah 23 and study words like “adultery”. To adulterate means to defile by mixing. The problem is that these last days are full of ministries with mixture. Keep the good, but man….we really need to not be so allowing with the defilement. Just because you prophecy and it sounds like christianese, that don’t make it kosher bro. Satan knows the bible too. Remember the false prophets that told King Ahab to “go to Remoth Gilead, for the LORD has given it into your hands”? They spoke in the name of Yahweh and used biblical and prophetical jargon. Yet all 400 of them were wrong and only Michaiah had the real word. There has to be more than just biblical cliche`s strung together to constitute a true judging (Paul said to “weigh” the word).
No one hates anyone.
And your statement about “this is why no one wants to be a christian” is not quite true. Non Christians don’t do google searches for Patricia King, Stacey Campbell, Bethel School of Ministry or any other such thing. They don’t even think about that, but you do so that’s why you found me. The “world” will never happen upon this and could care less about theological or spiritual reflection. So you’re argument sounds good at first but I’m not certain that it holds water.
Have a great day man…
mark jr.
haroldmaude // November 3, 2007 at 7:10 am |
Um, wow. If people want to entertain demons and dark spritis, why can’t they just do that at home? Why gather together to make a mockery of yourself amid a background of eerie music and some dude doing gymnastic flag waving?
But seriously. What’s wrong with everyone? Do we get so lead astray that we just can’t get out of it or do we wilfully remain in that junk? How sad. I’m so sorry, LORD. I wish it were not so. It’s like people are just joyfully leaping into the devil’s hands. Don’t they know hell is real?
And a note on that woman spining like a tornado on the mic… her voice levels didn’t change at all, outside of the moments when she raised her voice. But at no point did her voice diminish, despite all that movement.
haroldmaude // November 3, 2007 at 7:19 am |
I forgot to mention, I visited the main page of that Web site and noticed the list of upcoming seminars/ meetings or whatever they had organized. I saw one about ‘raising the dead’. These people aren’t serious, right? Who on earth wants to try and raise the dead? I won’t even mention the whole thing about anyone actually entertaining the idea that such a thing can actually be done. At a seminar. For a small fee. Man.
James // November 5, 2007 at 8:26 pm |
I would encourage you to watch the TBN episode with Pastor Randy DeMain and Jeff Jensen. They discuss in full detail the biblical refrences to there teachings..
J
iseeitdifferently // November 5, 2007 at 9:46 pm |
Link?
Because honestly, I’ve heard it all before. There is nothing new under the sun. I’ve been in this charismatic gamesplaying already and heard all the twisting of scripture over the years to where I seriously have no desire or felt need of looking up an interview from TBN.
So if you want to fish for a link and post it here, feel free.
mark jr.
myheavenlycowgirl // January 25, 2008 at 6:00 am |
I wasn’t able to watch the video you guys were referring to, but I was able to get in on much of your comments. All I have to say is that Randy DeMain is my senior pastor and I have nothing but respect for him and his family. I have attended one of his conferences that was at our church (and I did not have to pay a fee) and there were some things Jeff Jansen said the first night that made me very skeptical, but the rest of the weekend (and everything Pastor Randy preached) rang true.
Now, I’m not completely biased as I’ve only been involved here for seven months and this is my first time in a charismatic or prophetic type church so much of it I take skeptically.
I hope I was able to offer some type of a valid opinion.
iseeitdifferently // January 25, 2008 at 9:02 pm |
Actually it was well put. I wish more folks in a charismatic/prophetic (so-called) church would proceed with the caution you seem to exhibit.
And just so you know, nothing I have said here on this blog has so much to do with individuals as it does what they teach. I attack teachings and christian philosophies and not people. It may not always sound that way but that really is my heart.
I’ll check the link.
mark jr.
chris // February 4, 2008 at 2:46 am |
One thing I’ve noticed about these “prophecies” is that they don’t even make sense…there is not one logical sentence in the whole manifestation (manifestation of what is the question). I didn’t read all of the posts so I don’t know if it was mentioned, but the guy in the white that’s doing the bowing or whatever they always do, that Brian “head” Welch of Korn. I was very happy to read that he was saved and set free, but this certainly is discouraging to see. I’m hoping that as he grows in the faith, he’ll see this stuff for what is really is.
chris // February 4, 2008 at 2:47 am |
correction “for what it really is”
Pat // March 17, 2008 at 7:01 am |
Forget the head shaking. Forget the flag waving. Listen to the message:
…….Changing seasons
…….All of the structures they broke down
…….Everything they knew came down
…….The life is not in a form
…….The final revelation has not arrived
…….A great transformation is going on
…….The forms and the structures are coming down and a new wine skin is being built
and so on.
It seems that everyone that is looking at this movement with a jaundice eye is keying in on the obvious weird stuff. Stuff I think is weird by the way. As long as they can keep the debate focused on all the weird behavior, they can keep us from looking at the real issues.
I am seeing a common thread of error and heresy that is current to this movement. “The structures they broke down, the new wine skins, life is not in a form”, etc. What are these structures? Truth, sound doctrine, and the scripture.
I have not yet found the book or teacher that is the catalyst for this theme but I will. They are all singing the same song with the same message:
…….“The old wine skins cannot contain what God is about to reveal.”
What are the old wine skins? The true and historic teaching of Jesus and the Apostles.
What are the new wine skins? The teachings of the new apostles. We need to compare what they are teaching to:
Scripture
Scripture
Scripture
As long as they can keep everyone freaked out by the head shaking, and the gold dust, and the flag waving, and everything else; they can keep us from looking at their teachings. Teachings that are attempting to redefine the truth—and they are having success.
Wake up people. The hour is late. Many years ago when I read the words of Christ when he spoke of wolves in sheep clothing I thought that he was talking about the Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Christian Scientists, etc. I have concluded that it is more insidious than that. It is more seductive than that.
After I post this comment I will post a critique that I have posted on a few other web sites. Start looking at the theme. The theme is to forget the old structures and make way for the new thing God is doing.
We can no longer lean on the Bible Answer man and other similar ministries to do this work for us. There is more work than they can handle. This movement is spreading from a grassroots level. We have to defend the Faith from a grassroots level.
I have lost family members and friends to this movement. This happens through a process of seduction. They hold out carrots of greater revelation, miracles, spiritual power, and so on. Then they begin to redefine the Word of God.
If you think that your loved ones cannot be seduced away from the truth then think again. That is what I thought.
Nichole // April 17, 2008 at 5:57 am |
Mark Jr. Wrote:
“Being Spirit filled believers who’s God has promised to Abide in us, we can trust the “alarms” that issue from that same place that convicts, assures, loves, teaches and shapes us. I’m not an orphan, I know my Father. ”
That is some awesomeness right there.
About the video, not really sure if she is demon-possessed or just letting her flesh have a heyday, but if it is her flesh, how in the world can she do that for so long with no headache? Bizarre. Really, really, bizarre. Ranks up there with some of the stranger things I’ve ever seen.
Mary // April 17, 2008 at 9:40 pm |
Nicole,
I don’t believe anyone can do that by the power of the flesh. As you said, not for that long.
mark jr // April 18, 2008 at 12:30 am |
Oh, well, let me say that I don’t think she’s “possessed” per se. That’s a really hard thing to say about someone who is a christian….and I can’t go so far as to say that Stacey Campbell isn’t one, but I can say that there have been times in my walk where my flesh was sort of pulled along by lust, anger and such and in retrospect I honestly believe I was under a hellish influence.
Trust me, I was….it’s like those cartoons with shoulder devils. It didn’t last long; conviction and the fear of God came after me.
I say that to say that I don’t think she’s demon possessed, but I do think that she’s got a strange influence and spirit about her.
mark jr.
Nichole // April 18, 2008 at 3:16 am |
So you make a distinction between possessed vs. oppressed? I do agree there is some serious demonic oppression present (As I feel that way about the entire ElijahList and went through the wringer myself with all of that nonsense.)
Quote: “I don’t believe anyone can do that by the power of the flesh. As you said, not for that long.”
Well, stranger things have been done — I mean… people can train their bodies to do all sorts of things. I never knew I could run 10 miles, until I did it. Who knew I could run for that long in the power of my flesh? LOL.
My husband commented that when she began spinning around it seemed like she started to do it, hesitated and then thought “Oh yeah, that’s good, I should do that!!” He seems to think it was her flesh.
Either way I am sure there is also spiritual activity there, whether or not that specific activity was making her shake her head, the enemy was still taking advantage of the situation…
Thanks for your replies.
Tim H // April 18, 2008 at 5:23 am |
I read one time that when Jesus said to Peter “Satan get behind me” that it wasn’t because Peter was possesed or that he was necessarily oppressed but rather he was thinking as the world and not as the Kingdom of God. Jesus had a mission and Peter was not exactly catching that.
Anything opposite of the Kingdom thinking is of this world and therefore more in line with Satans attempts to twart the things of God.
Make sense? Thoughts?
Mary // April 18, 2008 at 4:39 pm |
Makes sense. And I heard there really isn’t a distinction between oppression and possession-only certain interpretations make a distinction that doesn’t exist in the original language.
Nichole // April 18, 2008 at 10:08 pm |
mary writes:
“And I heard there really isn’t a distinction between oppression and possession-only certain interpretations make a distinction that doesn’t exist in the original language.”
How can a distinction not be made? I don’t care what terminology is used to describe it, but I say it’s quite different when a demon is around just harassing/tormenting/tempting a christian, to a demon actually inhabiting a person and controlling their words, actions, deeds [sometimes without that person's knowledge of this happening]. I would say those are VASTLY different… that’s the distinction I make… what words are used to properly label such conditions, I don’t know. But if you take the words I mentioned earlier, I would say while at times I may have been oppressed, I have never been possessed.
Mary // April 19, 2008 at 2:32 am |
Nicole,
Lets say Staci is not acting in her flesh. Let’s say she is deceived by a demonic spirit who is manifesting through her(there is enough ample evidence that Patricia King who came out of the occult is still connected to false teaching and the occult). The variations in degrees of demonic influence are not really important…the end is the same. She is deluded and deceived.
lbolm // April 19, 2008 at 1:38 pm |
TimH wrote;
“Anything opposite of the Kingdom thinking is of this world and therefore more in line with Satans attempts to twart the things of God.”
Tim, that is what I feel Jesus was speaking about when He said that the “spirit of anti-christ” was already among you. ANYONE, who denies the fullness of God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit, is working with a “spirit of anti-christ”. We should be carefull when we tell people that God doesn’t do “so and so” or “such and such” today, for truly that denies HIS Sovereignty.
Sadly, the body has taken on the “spirit of anti-christ” from both extremes. Those that deny signs and wonders and those that focus only on signs and wonders! Either way loses focus of The Kingdom [Matt.6:33]
Many will come casting out demons and healing the sick, but they won’t be able to enter in, for God knows the heart of man, and judges the claims [works] based on the intent [the heart] behind them.
Love you Brother Tim!
Mark Jr,
Thanks for coming by and commenting @LBOLM.
I am about 3 hours south of you, but I will try to make it up there sometimes. Drop me an email with more info about FIRE and we’ll try to set up something.
Bless you Brother and your Family!!
Love in Christ Jesus
Jake
Brandon // April 20, 2008 at 5:06 am |
Holy CRUD MUFFINS i love it when she stops shaking her head to flick her hair, OMiGOSH!
Nathan // October 31, 2008 at 2:49 am |
Some people taking methamphetamine have been know to say similar things and act nearly identical.
Makes you wonder if she has a drug problem.
I pray that she gains health spiritual and physical to overcome what is tormenting her.
JesusfreakMT // November 10, 2008 at 5:31 am |
I have seen her at a conference and she is not demonized or whatever ized you think she is. She has given acuratte words to people i know…… edifying them and bringing them closer to God. Do you think Satan would want to do that…… come on! She brings people closer as a voice from God….. giving Him all the glory…… shame on you all for your blasphemy of a mighty woman of God who has been accurate and proven. Thanks gosh that the Good Lord Almighty is the final judge…… not us, as you have already crucified her.