“For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.”
The use of this verse, for some reason, has been chaffing me inwardly for years in an indescribable way. I’ve had this sense in my gut that there is a self-serving attitude and especially a totall and complete ignorance of the context that this verse is found in, much less the historical background of this speaking.
Some important things to consider are:
1) Who is the one speaking?
2) To whom?
3) What are the current historical undercurrents that give this prophecy its depth?
4) Are there conditions put upon the human subjects that if neglected will negate this prophecy?
There are more things to ponder, as I’m sure some of you will notice after (hopefully) reading this and thinking it through.
Mostly, it just seems to me that the whole manner in which this verse is employed is schmaltzy. What is schmaltzy, you say? Dictionary.com says “effusively or insincerely emotional; “a bathetic novel”; “maudlin expressions of sympathy”; “mushy effusiveness”; “a schmaltzy song”; “sentimental soap operas”; “slushy poetry”".
This wussy-ized form of sentimentalizing this verse has finally agrivated me to where I have to say something.
So here it comes…
This statement wasn’t given of God to end up on refrigerators and bumper stickers. This isn’t God telling everyone to cheer up and feel good about themselves. This has a context that is never given.
Here’s the verse in context. Actually, it’s the whole chapter. It’s not that long, so take the time to read this before moving on.
Notice that verse 11 is couched in between dealing with the false prophets. They had been feeding false hopes of a deliverance that God was not bringing. They announced a return to the land after two years (if memory serves me).
So God sends Jeremiah in to speak to the contrary. He tells them to settle in Babylon, get married, have kids, plant trees and gardens and vineyards. Basically God says, “you’re gonna be here fer a spell.” After Jeremiah rebukes the liars and removes false hope in a lie, he then gives them a sliver of blessing in this overall rebuke for listening to false prophets. This really is the main point of what God is saying through Jeremiah. It’s a reproof for believing lies, which is exactly what got them in trouble to begin with. The false prophets lulled Israel to sleep with blessing words, when judgment was at the door. They didn’t move anyone to repent so as to avoid the disaster, and they were still at it. The people didn’t learn their lesson and were still given to listening to falsehood because it felt good to hear.
Jeremiah tells them that God has good plans for their future, but they first have to stop listening to liars and be obedient to the true word of the Lord.
You’ll notice (unless you’re a lazy butt and didn’t read the text) that immediately after the word of the Lord is given, it is challenged. Shemaiah wants Jeremiah put in stocks and jailed for telling Israel that they will be in exile for a long time. For what he speaks against Jeremiah, God decrees that he (Shemaiah) will never see the good things come to pass that God did speak through Jeremiah.
But do you see the whole picture now? This verse is not some lonely island of niceties and warm fuzzies from the Lord!! In fact, this wonderful encouragement is conditional upon rejecting false prophetic words and being obedient, knowing God’s plans and living in accordance with them when He reveals them.
So please, quit using this verse independant of it’s entire truth.
mark jr.
49 responses so far ↓
Iwanthetruth // May 12, 2007 at 3:13 pm |
Mark Jr.
Great word and very interesting… You stated above,
“This really is the main point of what God is saying through Jeremiah. It’s a reproof for believing lies, which is exactly what got them in trouble to begin with. The false prophets lulled Israel to sleep with blessing words, when judgment was at the door. They didn’t move anyone to repent so as to avoid the disaster, and they were still at it.”
I have read this now a couple of times and I can’t seem to get this thought out of my head. If we take the total context of the word that you referenced and apply it for today, we have alot of “false prophets” who have lulled many believers asleep with their “blessing words”.
It seems that sites such as yours and SOJ and Paul Gowdy’s as well as many others, are in a way a “prophetic word” from the Lord to beware and not listen to the “false prophets”. The ultimate outcome would be “exile” from the Lord on the final day of judgement.
“Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy and do signs and wonders in your name? And the Lord said, I know you knot away from me.” (Matt 7:15-23 my paraphrase)
agathos // June 12, 2007 at 6:00 am |
There are so many that proof text this Scripture and use it for prosperity Gospel ideas, and for things such as “The Secret.”
It was not the original intent.
Well done.
Mary // June 12, 2007 at 3:51 pm |
Agathos,
Get a life.
agathos // June 14, 2007 at 2:48 am |
Thank you for your loving statement, though I must admit that I am not sure what it means. I compliment the author of this post for what I think is a job well done and you tell me to get a life. I’m starting to seriously doubt your reading skills.
Mary // June 14, 2007 at 4:05 am |
Agathos,
I think your trying to bait him. I find it hard to believe after smearing us fundies now you want to
give him any credit for saying anything worth while after WC totally trashed Mark’s statements.
You all reek of insincerity and you know it. Did I spell everything right? Cause I want to make sure I spell everything right.
And thank yo for all your loving statements to me on WC.
agathos // June 14, 2007 at 7:47 am |
NO Mary,
This is the type of thinking that I was trying to point out to you. You are so intellectually and spiritually arrogant you think you know what Mark is thinking and what I am thinking, regardless of what anyone writes.
Mark did an excellent job with this post, that’s why I wrote, “well done.” I truly enjoyed his insights and what he wrote.
When you write something incorrect and someone points out your inadequacy that does not mean that everything they write from that point on is derogatory.
Your world may be so small that it only resolves around you, but mine is bigger.
At the very least you responded to me, so that is some progress.
WC is not my puppet master. I think for myself, thank you.
I make mistakes. You make mistakes. The difference is found in Proverbs… “A fool hates correction.”
And no “yo” did not spell everything correct.
Mary // June 14, 2007 at 3:34 pm |
Agathos,
If I have come across as arrogant I apologize. That has never been my intent. I do not know Mark’s mind nor yours except from what you have written and based on how you have responded it’s less than charitable.
Can you be found by God through human reasoning? Not in a million years.
agathos // June 14, 2007 at 4:31 pm |
Mary,
I compliment someone and you tell me to get a life, and I am the one that is less than charitable? The pot has officially called the kettle black. And you assume much more than what is written by others. Remember from one sentence you suddenly knew how I read the Bible. That beauty started this whole thing.
About your last sentence: why is God trying to find me through human reasoning?
Through all of this lovely chatter with you I am finally left wondering only one thing. Do you have a High School degree?
Mary // June 14, 2007 at 9:19 pm |
Agathos,
ok that may have sounded too calvinistic.
For a person is not a Jew who is one outwardly,
nor is true circumcision something external and physical. Rather, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision is a matter of the heart-it is spiritual and not literal. Rom2:28-29.
And we speak of these things in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual things to those who are spiritual. Those who are unspiritual do not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to them, and they are unable to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2:13-15
agathos // June 14, 2007 at 10:05 pm |
Mary,
A) I am a follower of Christ, I will assume that you are a follower as well, therefore, first I will apologize if I have been too harsh in my tone through our comments. We should be able to disagree without putting down and we have both failed at that so far.
B) I will not assume what you intend by proof-texting those verses. But even if it is not what I think you intend it is still very, very poor exegesis to strangle these verses out of their original context as an answer to me in this conversation (probably considered definitive because it is Scripture). Here I disagreed with you without disparaging you. Return the favor.
WhoreChurch // June 17, 2007 at 5:50 pm |
Agothos: Quit being a–well if this was my or your blog you know what I could call you.
Matthew proof texted (if that’s even a word):
“Out of Egypt I called my son.”
Who was being spoken to? Who was speaking? What were the…oh, heck you get it.
iseeitdifferently // June 17, 2007 at 6:43 pm |
Comparing the usage of an OT scripture by an inspired apostle with someone else’s flakey usage of an OT scripture for schmaltzy reasons is bogus. You can’t put yourself on Matthews level.
It was regarding His firstborn son, originally known in the world as Ephraim (another way that the Prophets refered to Israel, i.e. Jer. 31:9, Psalm 89:27, ). Jesus being the true Israelite was the fulfillment of that word. It had an initial fulfillment and it’s perfect fulfillment. The original context is Israel. The fullest expression of it is Jesus. This is expressed many times in Romans 8:29, Col. 1:15, 18, Heb. 1:6 and 12:23, Rev. 1:5. So your attempt to show that Matthew proof texted is not quite on hit. Besides, in Rabbinic tradition a part of a verse could be quoted and it was always understood that the whole context was to be included in your hearing of the part of the verse. See, we’ve lost that as American “christians”. We quote a part and ignore the context, the ancients never did. This is another thrust of this particular writting.
So let’s look at Jeremiah 29:11 again. The context of this one statement has to do with God contradicting the “plans” of the false prophets. They said something to the effect of their exile only being 2 years and that the articles of the temple would come back as well. God said, “uh, no. You’re there for 70 years like I said before you went in. Plant, have kids, live. I’ll bring you back in the time I already ordained. Why? Because I know what my plans are for you and yes, they are good plans, but you are going to do your time first. The false prophets speak a seemingly nice plan, but mine is better even though you must first pass through the refinement of exile in another land.”
Or something to that affect. It’s the basic essence of what He’s communicating.
So yah, it still stands that bumper stickers and stupid refrigerator magnets are making it sound like this verse is the only thing that God has to say to anyone who’s a born again individual. Go back to what I said at the first: it’s the “schmaltzy” usage that grinds on me. It’s the humanly contrived, goofy and sappy approach that is foolish. It’s not that God didn’t have wonderful things in store for Israel (still does; Ro. 11), it’s the fact people have a habbit of just walking around in a lah-lah land of romanticizing God to a point where all He is is some pink dress wearing, green tea sipping hippy sportin’ dreadlocks, Birkenstocks and smelling like patchouli oil who never gets mad, never judges a nation or individual and has absolutely no conditions set up so as to facilitate blessing (Dt. 28). And I don’t care if I can’t spell patchouli, pachuli, puh-choo-lee, whatever.
Self serving exegesis is the issue.
I know God has plans for all of us. Good one’s. But I’m aiming past technical correctness and going into heart issues. Those that this applies to are the ones I’m hoping to hit. Those that it doesn’t apply to are obviously not on the radar.
Peace out Dubya See,
mark jr.
iseeitdifferently // June 17, 2007 at 7:03 pm |
So basically, you have no right to claim a nice part of a promise if you are disobedient to God in the outworking of your life.
And what I mean by that is this: your life is characterized by righteousness rather than sin. All sin, fall short and the like. But is that ALL that your life looks like? Or are you like the righteous man from the book of Proverbs who falls 7 times BUT GETS BACK UP every time? That is the disctinction. Do you lay in the mud puddle or get up? Do you quit riding the proverbial bike or get up, dust off your knees and elbows and get back on?
Anyway,
mark jr.
Kevin Scott // June 17, 2007 at 10:43 pm |
Wow Mark, you are long winded when you want to be.
I don’t use, nor did I use Jer 29:11; I was just pointing out a scriptural principle of exegesis.
And I addressed it to Aggie. He demonstrates the ability to think.
agathos // June 18, 2007 at 3:58 am |
Prooftexting is the practice of using decontextualized quotations from a document (often, but not always, a book of the Bible) to establish a proposition rhetorically through an appeal to authority. Critics of the technique note that often the document, when read as a whole, may not in fact support the proposition.
I was not apologizing to Mary for her comments (which I still vehemently disagree with; especially, her brutish, amateurish, and aberrant use of Scripture massively out of context) but to her as a person as I felt I may have crossed the line a hair and instead of commenting on her writing I commented on her as a person in too harsh of a manner. If that makes me a “*****” then so be it.
Kevin Scott // June 18, 2007 at 4:30 am |
Aggy, I understood clearly what you were apologizing for, don’t sweat it. If I read the historical passages of the NT correctly, those who use religion to abuse the weak are to be treated harshly.
I do my best, but it’s a lonely job.
iseeitdifferently // June 18, 2007 at 8:28 pm |
“Polygamy was not only accepted in scripture, it was a part of God’s plan through Abraham. Look it up. Jacob? Concubines? Hello? Is this thing on?”
Absurd. Patently false and I’ve not heard one scholar worth his salt that has ever even hinted at this. Look at what Jesus said about it. He went back into Genesis to show God’s created order and showed that His intention was one man, one woman, period. He made one woman.
There is something known as The Law of First Mention in theological consideration. Basically it means that the first mention of a thing is paradigmatic, the quintessential, prototypical and ideal function of the thing. So we have the first man and woman joined together by God. He told us that what He joined let not man put “asunder”, to quote KJV….which I normally don’t, but whatever.
Anyway, breaking union with the one to join to another and another is putting the oneness that God made essentially asunder. In fact that is what Jesus said constituted grounds for divorce.
Look at the word. EVERY man without exception had a hard life full of anguish when he joined himself to more than one woman. To say that it was condoned is so distorted it’s funny to see, almost. God bringing out 12 tribes from Jacob in this fashion has more to do with His ability to make good out of our screw ups (and we give him plenty) than His stamp of approval on it. Don’t eisegete.
Even so, look at the trouble these boys got into, with the exception of Joseph and Benjamin. Rueben got jiggy with Daddy’s lady, Judah slept with his own daughter in law, Simon and Levi where deceitful butchers (though I must say I wouldn’t stand for my sister being treated like a ho), and such like. So it ain’t like these kids didn’t cause a ruckus as a result of their being brought into this world in a wrongful way. And YET, Messiah came through one of those boys. Once again a great example of God turning our mess ups into something wonderful…just like our lives.
Jesus said “if you look at a WOMAN to lust after her”, not a married woman. Where the heck are you getting this from? You accuse me of making stuff up? In fact the word for woman simply means any woman married or a virgin, betrothed or otherwise. “I” make stuff up? Dude…
And just so you guys know, I’m going to delete some of your arguing commentary cuz it ain’t got jack squat to do with the post. It’s WAY-HAY-HAY off subject, like way off. So don’t get all butt hurt Kevin and accuse me of “censorship” or something similar.
I say butt hurt cuz it’s just a California term for gettin’ bent or irked.
Long winded?
Psh, this was a shorty.
And uh, yooz in my hizzy brutha! This is how we do it!
mark jr.
Kevin Scott // June 18, 2007 at 10:44 pm |
I’m going to make this really short just in case you decide to edit it out.
The so-called “Law” of First Mention is easy to refute as a principle of interpretation. Take marriage for instance: God says it is not good for a man to be alone. Paul says it is. Was Paul ignorant of what God says?
Or how about what we should eat: Should we only eat the original foods given to Adam and Eve–nuts and seed bearing fruits? Should we add vegetables and grains? Should we add meat?
Should we refer to “God” as “The Gods” since “The Gods” is the original rendering in Genesis?
I could go on, but you should get the point.
Polygamy: Moses took time to denounce bestiality, why no prohibition against polygamy? Do you really think bestiality was more common?
Why do you wish to add to the commands of God due to your inference?
Adultery: Check out the difference between adultery, premarital sex and the more general “sexual immorality.” If you need help Agathos can show you the Greek.
I think Jesus probably knew the difference in the three.
iseeitdifferently // June 21, 2007 at 12:08 am |
Finding out the difference between adultery, premarital sex or the wordphrase “sexual immoraltiy” has nothing to do with Jesus’ words. He said lusting after any woman, married or not, is an adulteration of the affections of the heart. Lusting after any woman is adultery in the heart. So on the one hand Jesus uses a word that relates specifically to married women, but then uses a word that means any woman in the same sentence. Why? He’s covering both bases and leaving you no wiggle room.
It’s beyond rediculous to assert that a God who hates all physical sins done outwardly and inwardly just barely stops short at this one, like He wanted to just leave us a little technicality. Look at the whole picture of God. All sins done outwardly are shown consistently to also be sins that He hates when commited in the heart. If He hates sexual immorality outwardly, why do you think He’d be “koo widdit” in the heart?
Jesus overrides Moses Kevin. He came to a situation where His word seemed to be juxtaposed against Moses’ allowance to divorce for any reason, yet He showed that they were wrong for relying on Moses ONLY for instructions on marital relationships. The pharisees, the kings of loopholes, had the same attitude as you seem to have (I said “seem”, so it’s not so absolutish). “I stay clean outside, keep my heart dirty, God’s okay with it.” Jesus destroyed that category. That is legalism in it’s truest form.
They asked, “why did Moses tell us it was cool to divorce then?”
Jesus reached into the very beginning, past the law of Moses. He first told them, “your hearts were hard so HE permited it”, clearly showing that that was something not in God’s intention. It’s the only law of Moses that Jesus took issue with. His authority was God’s first expressed intentions, i.e. the law of first mention.
Elohim? Gods? Yep. Look at Jesus’ baptism: Father speaks out of Heaven, Jesus is standing there and the Holy Spirit is also seen descending. All three of them are present at once in one scenario in distinctly different persons. So if you wanna run around saying “Gods” I don’t care. I just call Him Jesus, it’s easier. So while it is clear that there is three, God speaks of Himself as one (the Hebrew meaning pointing toward unity of thought, intention and purpose) Lord. Mystery? Yep, but so is the electrical system of a Dodge Caravan. I don’t understand it at all, but it don’t keep me from turning the key and driving the thing. Some things aren’t important to figure out.
On the earth that Adam and Eve lived on, they didn’t need protein. You’ll notice that God only allowed for that AFTER the flood. In fact, the first animal wasn’t even killed for food but for worship (Abel). It became neccessary because of how He altered the earths atmosphere. These guys (with PhD’s that they actually earned in real colleges) can talk about all that better: http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/tools/flood-waters.asp
I’d love to live in a place like that again and just eat veggies. I don’t care. But when things change on earth God is always able to modify things. This isn’t hard to accept. He told Saul that He could have had an established kingdom, but he never got it. The first generation of Israelites were promised Canaan, but never got it. God modifies His plans whenever He has to if we screw something up or act disobediently and step out of line with covenental stipulations.
When God said “it’s not good for the man to be alone” you have to notice something: the definite article “the”. Specifically, “it’s not good for just one human to exist. He can’t relate to angels or animals, and I desire Godly offspring so I will make two to be one”, or so Paul tells us as the reasoning of God’s design of marriage. God looked at Adam and saw that he had angels above and animals all around, but no humans; none of his kind to have a REAL relationship with. Loners never do well, they end up getting guns and shooting up school mates and teachers after filming themselves saying rediculous nonsense (VT, Columbine…).
What of Paul? He wasn’t alone like Adam was. God didn’t say of Adam, “it’s not good for him to not be able to have sex”, (although I’m pretty stoked about that one) he said it wasn’t good for him to be alone, by himself with no helper, companion, company, friend to relate to. Paul wasn’t alone, he was just unmarried. Big difference. Besides, Paul told us that what he had was a God given Grace specifically for him and that not everyone would have that. No contradiction at all.
Long winded? You drive me to it. You say too many things erroneously about the bible that I can’t possibly let it fly.
This is enough for now. Gotta go.
mark jr.
iseeitdifferently // June 21, 2007 at 12:15 am |
Oh, one more thing, the Hebrew word for “green herbs” in Genesis means vegetables, so they already ate veggies.
mark jr.
martha // July 2, 2007 at 9:02 pm |
i accidentally stumbled across your site as i was doing a search for jeremiah 29:11 in hebrew text. so i apologize for jumping into a debate between several people who apparently read and write together regularly…
but i just wanted to say, i agree that this verse is often used arbitrarily and incompletely (i.e. outside of its context)… but i don’t think that the context, etc. takes away from the power of the verse. in fact, i believe it adds to it. i think it’s wrong to use this verse (or any other, for that matter) in a schmaltzy just-to-make-you-feel-better sort of way… but this verse is powerful when read and meditated on fully.
jer 29:11 has long been a verse that i fall back on in times of great trial, etc. because the bottom line is… it’s true. my version (esv) reads: “For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for wholeness and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.” the text goes on to say that the Lord says this so that we will call upon Him for all things and that when we do, He will answer. ver 13 says, “You will seek me and find me. When you seek me with all your heart…”
i’m at work right now and therefore have not had time to browse around your site, but i assume you’re a believer, and therefore i have to ask… what makes you believe this verse is wrong? not encouraging? un-true? (i realize you didn’t necessarily say this… but you seem so bitter against the text, that it does come across that you find the truth claimed in this verse to be untrue) isn’t this the message of scripture and Christ’s teaching as a whole? that despite how dark life gets… how ugly our sin and how tragic our circumstances… the Lord has a plan… and it is a good plan. He does not intend to harm us and cause us detriment… and while we may suffer greatly… in the end, His purpose will be revealed.
anyway, sorry to write so much in a comment… but i couldn’t pass by without saying something. jeremiah 29:11 should never be used to gloss over trials or give us false hope for worldy things… but the power and truth spoken through it should not be diminished either. the Lord loves us, and even if our circumstances don’t look the way we want them to… His plans for us ARE perfect… and one day, we will see that.
Mary // July 3, 2007 at 12:13 am |
Yeah,
I have to agree Martha. Though I am not the writer of this blog, I found this verse very encouraging in my christian life as a new believer. Infact, I had this verse only to stand on during some really difficult times. I’ll let Mark answer but umm…. I am not sure I really understand the context of why he is so staunch about it.
Mary // July 3, 2007 at 1:38 pm |
OK,
I do underastand why after reading his post again.
But it still was a verse that brought me through some hard times. But I didn’t read it as a prosperity verse. It helped me through some realy dark days and encouraged me to understand God was not out to get me, bad circumstances don’t usually last, and He would get the glory in the end.
iseeitdifferently // July 4, 2007 at 3:54 pm |
I don’t think this verse is “wrong”, but the selfish and sentimental kind of abuse of it is the kicker.
I thought I was pretty clear, but in a nutt shell if this verse speaks to you while you’re in tough times, well, that is actually the context it was given in so you’re pretty close to being in line with the whole backdrop of God’s speaking of this verse.
But if you’re just one of those glib, take half a scripture and run with it (i.e. prayer of Jabez) kind of folks and you’re a bumper sticker christian, then that’s what I’m getting at. It’a mentality that is less than serious in its consideration of God. It’s when people use this as part of thier piece-meal approach to forming an opinion of God’s character that I groan. They make it sound like this is ALL that God is, i.e., pining away in heaven with a “mormon smile” just waiting to be super-duper nice and never being anything other than a heavenly blob of warm fuzzy goop.
So it’s really about ignoring half of who God is in favor of making Him in your own image and using a verse who’s historical context is in the midst of trial and judgments that He Himself has sent. They forget the harshness of most of the book of Jeremiah.
Folks who don’t have this issue…God bless you as He speaks this to your heart in your hard time. It is absolute in its truthfulness and you can (and should) bank your life on it.
Clearer?
Hope that helped…
mark jr.
Vince // July 4, 2007 at 10:07 pm |
Hey Mark…this post is bugging me a little for some reason. I think that you are being a little insensitive…lol. Just messin. I wanted to stir you up a little. Anyways, I can’t believe I just now read this and its been on your website for two months. So…yeah this verse has been a little misused. I think heard DMX quote one time at the Grammy’s. For some odd reason “Christianity” has turned into a pick and pull of certain verses that make us feel better about ourselves and no true repentance has even taken place. Now we have rappers like DMX, quoting verses like Jeremiah 29:11 and all of a sudden they are holy.
8082641331
Vince // July 4, 2007 at 10:09 pm |
ummm…don’t mind that phone number my sister called me and I didnt have a pen and paper.
P-Dunn // July 10, 2007 at 4:41 am |
Well done. This is one thing that I am also very irritated by, and it’s unfortunate that it’s so common.
You’re not the only one, though. My sister goes to a Christian school, and on the first day of her Old Testament class, the professor spent the class lecturing on how to properly interpret this verse. Great guy.
Jim B. // July 12, 2007 at 12:09 am |
Amen.
I have never been a big fan of “life verses” to begin with, but Jeremiah 29:11 has always been my least favorite. Firstly, because that seems to be EVERYONE’S life verse. Secondly, because – as you stated – it is a pretty self-serving life verse (at least when you read it out-0f-context).
“My Life Verse is Jeremiah 29:11…” « Blatzkrieg // July 12, 2007 at 1:45 am |
[...] 12th, 2007 by Jim B. I stumbled on to this post by Mark Jr. at Hand Me A Scalpel on the frequent misuse of Jeremiah [...]
Mary // July 12, 2007 at 3:38 am |
New American Standard Version:
“For I know the plans that I have for you, declares the Lord, Plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope.”
Mark,
I ‘m not nagging on you because you clarified, I think very well what you meant but for others-
welfare- as in well being,wholeness- emotionally, spiritually etc. not financially necessarily.
I have found Him to be faithful.
Mary // July 12, 2007 at 9:50 am |
I meant NASB
iseeitdifferently // July 12, 2007 at 10:05 pm |
Actually, I don’t have a problem with people being in financial crisis and this verse speaking to them a sense of peace and that God would even….*gag*….prosper….them. Yeah, I know….
Blatzkrieg….that rules!!!
mark jr.
iseeitdifferently // July 12, 2007 at 10:06 pm |
Oh, forgot to end that other thought…
Anyway, it’s the selfish misuse and the Santa Claus Jesus idea that galls me, and I believe the Lord as well.
mark jr.
martha // July 23, 2007 at 9:03 pm |
thanks for the clarification mark jr.
i realize this is what you were saying, and i apologize for going off on my rant without acknowledging that you wren’t implying the verse itself was bad. i’m with you… prayer of jabez made me sick… and people who read the verse in that sort of context are SO mistaken. i’m with you on that.
i’ve so enjoyed reading the comments, etc. on this post. way to stir up a fascinating debate.
iseeitdifferently // July 23, 2007 at 11:39 pm |
I would say that this verse would definitely apply to you with what you’re enduring.
May the Lord put and keep His hand on you, strongly,
mark jr.
joannmski // August 30, 2007 at 5:08 pm |
Hi there, I thought this was a very good post – and linked to it. I couldn’t get through all the comments but I really liked the original post.
http://joannmski.blogspot.com/2007/08/gods-easy-way.html.
Hannah // September 5, 2007 at 4:26 am |
This a debate??? It’s a quarrel! Let’s keep this respectful and edifying. Who are you building up with this fighting? I’m shocked.
Even when we disagree, let’s bless each other as Christians.
Gosh!
WhoreChurch // September 5, 2007 at 4:50 am |
Hannah,
You represent one of the biggest problems with Christianity today–the lack of willingness to engage in heated disagreement.
Christians have lost their place in the discourse with both religious and non-religious folks today because they often are not willing to potentially offend or seem offensive. Jesus was very offensive. So was Paul.
Get over it cupcake.
Mary // September 5, 2007 at 9:39 pm |
Hannah,
If you are talking about me I was not arguing or quarrelling. I was just trying to present my view.
Honest. I feel the love.
iseeitdifferently // September 5, 2007 at 11:55 pm |
Dubya!!
That’s wierd that you just popped in here….sincerely hope all is well and that life has the definitive smile of God on and in it,
mark jr.
Matt // September 13, 2007 at 10:03 pm |
So I’m the dorky guy who has been reading through this website and giving late comments. I do not like some of the attitudes, being sort of justified by the idea that we are trying to sort it out and get deeper through debate. Christianese arguing and bad attitude is the same old stench with a new sound.
I happen to like the verse, and particularly in the context where it seems like things are going bad. God does have our best interest in mind, and it might not be the job/ministry/wife/investment etc. that we’ve been hoping and praying for, but something for us that is an even greater blessing(maybe not even in our earthly life).
I agree it is annoying when everyone loves the same thing. I paint and draw and guess who one of my favorite artists is? Dammit its Van Gogh! I wish I could be more original but he is just awesome. same with this verse and the context in general.
I was born in the Phillippines as an MK and lived there for half my life. This part of Jeremiah has been a part of my life for the last year, as I recognize that a lot of Christians in Bible school are so eager to get out of the US and get killed as a missionary in a foreign country for God and achieve the Lord’s Medal of Honor for their service.
Well in this place of Jeremiah God is telling the Israelites to settle in the ungodly place and raise families, have business, mingle with the other culture without losing their spiritual identity. That is a mission by itself, and we need to remember that God calls us to many things, including being on mission in America to our neighbors and in our jobs, setting an example by our lives we live and not being ashamed of the gospel
Got a little of topic, but I like this place in Jeremiah. Jer 29:7 But seek the welfare of the city where I have sent you into exile, and pray to the LORD on its behalf, for in its welfare you will find your welfare.
b-man // March 18, 2008 at 4:32 am |
Have you guys seen Todd Friel’s DVD “Herman Who?” It totally talks about the same thing, funny.
You can find it at http://www.wayofthemasterradio.com
Timbo // May 22, 2008 at 10:35 pm |
I think this is a great post, because it brings to light a problem in the Christian word that has been gaining momentum for years. The idea that every follower of Christ is destined to be blessed materially and physically is a bunch of baloney. My reference for this statement is…. the Bible. Lets see, 11 of the disciples died unnatural deaths as a result of following Christ, while Paul was a far cry from security, you know, being in prison and all. Chinese believers as well as those in other countries sit in terrible prisons or endure great hardships for the sake of Christ. This is not blessed in any perspective but that of the Kingdom of God. All respect to Joel Osteen and I do not seek to judge him or anyone like him, but I do not see the gospel they preach and the Gospel of Christ lining up in ways that are essential to the true life of a believer. The plain fact is that not everyone has “prosperity” on their horizon unless you are talking in Spiritual currency.
Also, I do take some exception to Matt’s comment (see 2 comments ago). My friend, I think you risk throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Yes there is a need for believers to stay and be light to a lost world in America as well (or wherever home is), but there is also a harvest that is sitting ungathered (or in some places unplanted yet) in the rest of the world, and I would not condemn out of hand those who seek to be light to a dark world as well. I currently am in a place where 96% of the population is without the knowledge of the Son. Workers are needed… But i think i do understand where you are coming from.
Rashelle // December 21, 2008 at 4:40 am |
So I simply have a question. I’m not trying to get in an argument or fight, I just have a real honest to goodness question. So is it wrong for me to then confess or believe that God has a certain plan for my life that includes hope, prosperity, etc… I understand what you were saying about the false prophet ordeal and what not, but I guess I still don’t understand why I shouldn’t quote this verse.
Thank you for your time in answering my question and I value everyone’s opinion. I just want to know what you think about it.
Thank you!
iseeitdifferently // December 22, 2008 at 2:00 am |
It depends on what you mean by “confess”. That’s a can of worms by itself.
Generally speaking, I believe in the goodness of God’s plans for my life…I just hate slogan christianity full of cliche`s. People have a tendency to use “white out” blotter on their bibles and this verse is one of them.
Go ahead and quote it; the title of the post is more fecetious than anything. Certain flakey mindsets get on my nerves so I just say stuff.
But keep in mind not just the kindness, but also the severity of God and remember that these kinds of blessings are not for the carnal.
Thanks for asking, Lord’s blessings be yours,
mark jr.
Trish // January 19, 2009 at 11:17 pm |
I realize this is an old post. I have read the entire book of Jeremiah and I do know the context of this verse. I just had it tattooed on my back two days ago. I was hit by a car several months ago. The day I graduated college, as a matter of fact. I am still unable to work or even move much without pain. The doctor told me last week that there is nothing more they can do. My body is as good as it’s going to get. So, my plans of being an elementary school teacher have been squashed. This verse is what keeps me going right now, original context aside. God does have a plan for me, and it’s a good one. Perhaps the tattoo was a little crazy, but so was hearing that I will be in pain everyday for the rest of my life. So, I love the post…context is important. But don’t get irritated when you see my bumper sticker or magnet (don’t really have those, just the tattoo). I need this verse and I am hanging on to it for dear life.
iseeitdifferently // January 20, 2009 at 1:08 pm |
If you had read the rest of the comments, someone in a worse spot than you said something similar. Look for my response to it.
Again, this was aimed at the prosperity gospel kooks, not people in pain…which Israel was, though self inflicted. So actually, you fit the bill nicely.
Oh, and find a good chiropractor: you don’t have to be in pain for the rest of your life. Try taking a more nutritional approach to life as well; you’ll be surprised.
Thanks for stopping by,
mark jr.
cheryl // January 22, 2009 at 10:58 pm |
This is a great post, I agree Trish. I’m just wondering why you would get a tattoo when you have so much pain? Tattoos are painful in and of themselves. And I have known teachers who are blind. Why would an injury stop you from being a teacher? I’m not trying to put you down, I would like to encourage you.
Trish // January 23, 2009 at 1:06 am |
Hi, Cheryl. The tattoo actually wasn’t all that painful. I’ve read the bumper sticker that says, “tattoos are permanent proof of temporary insanity.” I think that may explain it. I was so discouraged and saddened when I was told that I wouldn’t get better, I think the tattoo was my idea of saying, “watch me.” God knows what he’s doing, people don’t always know.
The injury is preventing my being an effective teacher. I could be a teacher now, but I would end up being the kind who sits and passes out worksheets. That’s not what a real teacher does. It’s the pain that interferes, it gets very intense at times. It has changed me in many ways, one of which is a huge dent in my patience. I love children and they deserve patience and kindness, but sometimes when I’m hurting, I don’t want to deal with anyone else…even precious children.
I know it’s not over. That was one person’s opinion. I won’t give up on getting better (although now I understand why people sometimes do). I will keep working with the chiropractor and physical therapist and continue pain management, but most importantly, I will continue to trust God and know that he loves me and has a perfect plan for me. Wherever I end up, classroom or not, will be right where I should be.
Trish