Hell: Myth or Reality, Temporary or Eternal?

Alright Noogie, here you go.
http://www.bible-researcher.com/hell1.html

This is an article that outlines how the idea of a perpetual, burning hell was a thoroughly Jewish idea, in fact we got it from them. The idea of this eternal hell was quite accepted and understood by the time Jesus came on the scene. If it was a myth or not a Jewish concept, you have to wonder why NOBODY ever challenged his teaching on hell. Why didn’t the Pharisees just say, “nuh uh, stupid! We as Jew’s don’t even have a concept of hell like what you mention, so there!”? When they thought He was wrong or blasphemous, they “took up stones to stone Him” or would attempt to trap Him in questions. But this doctrine of hell went totally unchallenged by everyone. They challenged Him on Sabbath issues, washing hands before eating, his reasons for eating with sinners and other things related to oral Law and its nomenclature.
So Noog, why didn’t people start questioning Jesus’ doctrine of hell until several hundred years after He was gone?

No, the church fathers didn’t create it. They put it in cement. It was well established, as well as His Diety. In fact, creeds only came into existance because of heresy against established, apostolic teachings. So creeds didn’t create any truth of any kind, they were only done for the sake of making what they believed easier to understand in light of goofy and heretical teachings (like yours mr. Noog) that were messing with people’s heads.

The development of this idea about hell is a trip. If you get a chance, scope out that article. It’ll take about 20 min. or so to read….well, I read kinda fast, so I don’t know. But anyway, this Bible Researcher web site has great articles on hell.
I noticed that in Matthew 25:46, after the sheep and goats are separated the sheep go into “eternal” life and the goats into “everlasting punishment”. Eternal and everlasting are the exact same Greek words. Over and over in the N.T. we find the same words that describe the eternality of heaven describing the eternality of hell (the smoke refered to in Revelation rises “forever”).

Noog’s idea of hell is cracked and whoever fed him this false history sketch of the development of the doctrine of hell is a loon with no grip on reality, much less do they even avail themselves to historical writtings on the subject.
I just have to wonder out loud to myself, “if hell is a myth, why the heck did Jesus talk about it at all? If it was a developing heresy, why not squash it like He did the oral Law? Why be so confusing by appearing to talk about something as if it’s real when it isn’t?” And yes, Gehenna was a type of hell, a perpetually burning, non-ending torment full of criminals, beasts and unclean things. No, it did not stand for a temporary “ouchie”. Again, study the history of this thing….that link at the top is a good start. Actually that whole website has good articles on it.
There’s no logic to your thinking Noogie. (if you must, you can say “marky” in retaliation…this is all in good fun, hope your not offended by my taking liberties with your screen name).

Why do we as humans feel this need to think of all kinds of stuff to believe to make Him nicer? What, does it make it easier to get saved or something? Grampa Jesus.

Knowing how much God hates sin and what hell is like was the backdrop of the revealing of God’s love and is what saved me. I deserve “that” and I’m getting “this“? “That” being an eternal hell and “this” being His life and love. I mean, dude, I’m as saved as saved can get (saved from what?). I’m a partaker of Life eternal…oops, wait…eternal doesn’t mean eternal I guess….well, only for heaven, just not hell….right?
You see how convoluted that thinking is? It’s a selfish “piece meal” approach to Jesus and the bible. Take it all or you can’t have any of it; God’s Truth is indivisible.

I still can’t figure out how Noog thinks hell is a myth. In fact, the doctrine of hell was taught in the gospels (Matthew, Mark and Luke) by Jesus. For crying out loud…There aren’t any other N.T. books that even talk about hell except Revelation. Paul didn’t talk about it…I think Peter mentioned it once, but he used a peculiar Greek word for it (Tartaraus, i.e. the abode of the evil dead). And Jude refered to it as a black darkness. In fact, Jude drew heavily from what is known as the book of Enoch, a non canonical book (for good reason). But in it is a very well drawn out teaching about hell, which is why Jews had no problem with Jesus speaking of it. But the fact remains that He spoke about this place more than anyone. He even related a true story about hell’s conscious torment when he talked about the rich man and Lazurus. No, not a parable. Every parable started off with something to the affect of “it is likened to”, or something similar. This story is introduced by Jesus in language that let’s us know it was an actual occurance, i.e. “there was a certain rich man…” (Luke 16:19). No metaphor, no simile. There ‘was’. Was is in the imperfect-indicative which means it was an absolute fact that this thing happened. Jesus brought us an actual story to sort of bring us face to face with a real-life scenario of what the damned experience in hell and what sort of things are longed for by those in the torment side of what was called ‘Hades‘ in this verse. Hades was known to be the grave, the realm of departed spirits and Jesus shows us that one side is a place of comfort (Abraham’s bosom) and one side is torment (“I am in agony in these flames”).

Again, look at the words “I am” in this passage. In the KJV it says “I am tormented”, but in the Greek it’s one word, odunao. This word is in the present-passive-indicative tense, meaning an ongoing, perpetual and absolutely real sense that is definitely being experiened by this one person speaking. Again, the language is not vague or ambiguous. Only those who desire to find alternate ideas can find them, but you have to subvert truth to do it.

So this idea of hell in Jesus’ time wasn’t foreign or new. In fact, all of the figures of speech that Jesus uses to describe hell come from Talmudic literature and current Jewish belief about hell. I know, I know; that really sorta pee’s on your “catholics created hell” campfire, but it’s true. I mean, you need only realize what I mentioned earlier, viz, nobody challenged Jesus’ teaching on hell, and that should help get your brain in gear to simply ask questions, as you asked us to do. Are you doing it now?
You know, it’s about the only teaching of His that did not get challenged. Isn’t that odd considering that it’s a myth (yet He talked about it as though real) and if it’s real it’s not forever, conscious torment (even though He used the same word for hell as for heaven, e.g. “ainios“)?

I mean, if it isn’t real then Jesus is a liar AND a lunatic, so is Peter and so is John…

SO WHAT THE HECK ARE WE FOLLOWING A WACKO FOR??!! Why do we follow Jesus at all if He spent so much time talking about a mythological place that doesn’t exist? Explaining it away by saying, “those were metaphors” won’t work. What were the metaphors pointing to? Metaphors always point to something real by using figurative language to help you understand the reality of what’s being communicated. A metaphor to describe nothing? Absurdity of the highest order.
And if it doesn’t burn forever then why did He confuse us (playing tricks, ay Jesus?) by using the same word that describes our yet future bliss and reward? He’s an absurd idiot and we need to reject Him outright if this is the case. Same with Peter and John. Deluded men they must be, if mister Noogatiger is right.

If hell isn’t real, why restrain our flesh? Let’s eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die and then just disappear or burn up and eventually quit being punished for our rebellion? Let’s pig out, drink up, and smoke out!
Do you even read your bible dude? Seriously, I am struggling to see how you can just skip over so many references that Jesus made about hell and it’s perpetuity. Do you have Thomas Jefferson’s bible?

Oy vey…

Well, that’s enough for now, at least to get a big ball rolling.
mark jr.